Thor vs. Superman

Thor vs. Superman

Written by Zeromage 2,308 Comments
Last Updated:: July 15, 2008

The Mighty Thor and Superman are the heavy-hitters of Marvel and DC respectively, each of them arguably the most powerful hero in their respective universes. So its natural that this is without question the most discussed versus debate amongst comic book fans. No other versus battle comes close to being talked about as much than this one. Try to start a “Superman vs Thor” thread on any forum and the first response is sure to be: “Not this again”.

Some of you may remember our “Top 10 Most Powerful Superheroes” list that we released a while back, where we made the controversial claim that Thor was the most powerful superhero of all time (Superman coming in at number three on that list). Months later we are still receiving emails either agreeing with us, or flaming us for that decision. Many fans cite Superman’s speed as the deciding factor in any fight between the two behemoths. Other emails claim that Thor’s magical powers would be enough to stop the man of steel in his tracks. So, the natural question is, do we still stand by our claim that Thor is more powerful than Superman? The answer is still “yes.” In this article we’ll break down the seven most common arguments and give you our take on them.

1. Super Strength

The claim has often been made that Superman is stronger than Thor. Many times on versus forums threads this claim is accepted as a given by both sides of the debate. We don’t concede that the Man of Steel is physically stronger than the god of thunder though. Thor has performed feats such as lifting the World Serpent, and once hurled the Odinsword, an enormous mystical blade, through a Celestial! Thor has also single-handedly matched the strength of the Hulk on numerous occasions (the Marvel Universe’s strongest character). Not only that but Thor is capable of entering into a state known as the “Warrior’s Madness”, which will temporarily increase his strength tenfold. Some of these feats have no true equivalent in the DC universe. We think at the very least, the two character’s physical strength is equal.

2 . Super Speed

This is Superman’s one true advantage in this fight. Superman is fast. We’re talking warp speed fast. We’re talking once around the entire planet and back before you can blink fast. You could easily make the argument that Thor would be lucky if he even saw Superman before he got pounded. But is Thor as slow as everyone seems to think? Unknown to many DC fanboys Thor can throw his hammer at the speed of light (See Thor#140, Thor#274). He can also swing it at TWICE the speed of light (Journey Into Mystery#102). In Thor -#393- it’s established that the speed of Thor’s hammer TRANSCENDS both TIME & SPACE. In addition Thor can appear anywhere across the Universe or other dimensions in just seconds (see- FF#339, and Thor#166). And, most importantly, Thor could, visually, detect objects that move at fantastic speeds (this happened when Thor was the target of artillery fire- see Invaders#33- and Avengers-#281- when he saw the speedy Hermes. And yes, I do need a life). Now if we accept that Superman can move at 99% of the speed of light, and that Thor can swing his hammer at twice the speed of light, it stands to reason that big blue is in some trouble. It’s true that Thor doesn’t use his super speed abilities often, but how many times have you seen Superman not use his super speed when he should have?

3. Stanima

Who can take more punishment, Thor or Superman? This is a difficult question. Thor has withstood a blast from Asgardian Destroyer. Superman has withstood a direct hit from a nuclear bomb. Thor has taken everything the Hulk could dish out. Thor also once took a glancing hit by a Doomsday Bomb that was capable of destroying an entire planet, and soon after that explosion he fell from space (leaving a crater miles wide) to a planet called Pangoria-see Thor#387. Thor has also taken everything that Gladiator (an arguably more powerful version of Superman) could dish out. Both characters have come back from the dead a couple of times. In my mind this one is a draw. Both characters have approximately the same stanima. The difference is Superman has weaknesses (i.e. Kryptonite, Magic, and the fact he is powerless without yellow sunlight) whereas Thor pretty much doesn’t.

4. Magic

Even the most diehard Superman fan would concede that Thor’s magical abilities would be an advantage for Thor. First, I would like to note that just because an opponent can wield magic, it in no way guarantees a win over the last son of Krypton. Superman has defeated countless magic users in the past, and so I have no illusions that just because Thor has magic powers and a magic hammer that he would automatically own Superman. That being said magic is just as lethal against Supes as kryptonite. Superman has no defense against it, and it can affect him greatly. Superman getting pounded by Mjolnir is the same as you and me getting pounded by a normal hammer. And consider the guy who’s swinging it. It’s Thor. The god of thunder. Not only that, but Thor’s lightning is magical too. Remember that just a single lightning bolt is equivalent to 15,000,000 volts of electricity and could travel over 224,000 miles an hour. The clear advantage here goes to Thor.

5. Super Powers

Before Thor inherited the Odinforce, the super powers of these two heroes were a little more even. Now there is absolutely no contest. Thor has a clear edge over Superman here. His magical hammer gives Thor the ability to control the weather, the ability to fly; energy projection and absorption; dimensional apertures; matter manipulation, as well as the most powerful of his offensive powers: the God Blast, and the Anti-Force. Superman is no push over in this department either, with the already mentioned super strength, super speed, as well as heat vision, x-ray vision, enhanced senses, and the ability to blow hurricane force winds from his mouth. But what is that compared to being able to summon an actual hurricane? Not only that but with the Odinforce Thor was then capable of feats such as reconstructing the Earth’s Moon,willing the Asgardian monster Mangog into nothingness, and by focusing his entire power into a hammer throw that even decapitated a Desak-occupied Asgardian Destroyer. Having accepted his heritage as the son of the earth goddess Gaea, he has recently been shown to be capable of opening chasms in the earth itself, and who knows what other abilities he’ll be displaying now that he’s done that.

6. Superman beat Thor in the Avengers / DC Crossover

I don’t want to spend much time on this one. Most fans of comics know how much weight we should give to crossovers. Besides, I personally have no doubt that Superman would beat Galactus in a crossover. He’s DC’s flagship character after all. Enough said on that one.

7. Thor has Thousands of Years of Combat Experience

This is a common argument used by Thor fans to claim that Thor would take down Superman. It seems fairly obvious. If I somehow gained super powers and a Viking Warrior somehow gained the exact same or nearly equivalent powers, most people would put their money on the Viking if we fought each other. Now imagine the Viking warrior was thousands of years older than me, and had been using his powers for all those thousands of years to battle trolls, giants, demons, robots, aliens, and gods, and I have only been using my powers for 20-30 years. It seems clear to me that the Viking Warrior god has a clear cut advantage over me in a fight. Again advantage Thor.

It seems obvious to me that Thor has a clear advantage over Superman in a fight. I don’t think that Thor is so powerful that there is no way that Superman could ever defeat him. But I believe that the majority of the time Thor would beat Superman in a one on one fight, assuming its not a fight to the death. If it is a fight to the death, then I think Thor would almost invariably win. So there you have it, the definitive answer to one of the most talked about and controversial debates in comic book nerdom. Brought to you by your pals at Old-Wizard.com.

Discuss Thor vs Superman in our forums.

2,308 Comments

#1 General Grievous says:
March 16th, 2010 at 6:06 pm

Prove it, Shadowhunter. So me Superman performing a feat of this incredible strength you keep going on about.

#2 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 8:56 pm

Do I really have to say everything he did? If you can’t read what Delta already posted, I will. If you can, stop asking. Let’s see if we agree me and you. Thor has the power of a god, right?

#3 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 9:48 pm

As soon as I’m done working I’ll be back here and show, that this “critical information” has not been left out, and that infact Superman has done those things, and that Superboy prime is in FACT A PC KRYPTONIAN. Unfortunatelly for you I happen to own the sagas and I have read them countless of times. I can show you the scans and Superboy prime is IN FACT A PC KRYPTONIAN. thsi is not a hyperbole, He and Kal-L are PC kryptonians.

Superman DID IN FACT CONTAINED THE BLACK HOLE BY HIMSELF, THEN GL HELPED TO MOVE THE BLACK HOLE TO THE WORM HOLE. AGAIN THIS IN NOT A HYPERBOLE IS A FACT.

I’ll be back later have to work first

#4 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 9:53 pm

“Superman’s strength is around moon moving, his speed and reaction time are near light, and his durability is such that he can shrug off nukes and survive at least a planet buster or two without dying. No more than that.”

That was the last time you actually picked a Superman comic probably 10 years ago. In present time Superman is different!!!

Seriously Grievous read CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS AND THEN READ INFINITE CRISIS, YOU’LL NOTICE THEY ARE THE ONE AND THE SAME.

DO YOU WANT THE SCANS?

This is actually not the first time you mixed up stories when trying to prove your point.

I’ll be back later

c ya!

#5 Jesse says:
March 16th, 2010 at 10:14 pm

@Alberto:

As a kid I loved DBZ, but within the context of that show, most characters (most specifically the saiyans) would become significantly stronger (rpg style) after a really hard fought battle. Although characters like Goku and Vegeta grew far ahead of the pack, most of the DBZ characters progressed in power over the span of the show.

The problem I have with Superman continuing to grow in power is that (such is the nature of comics) Superman still has to interact with all of the other DC characters. True, it is possible that they too are progressing in power, but really now, if Superman is as powerful as described in this thread, then doesn’t that kind of ruin for all the other characters?

I’ve already stated that I’m not up to date with DC (the last event I read was Final Crisis) and even before that I didn’t read all that much. You stated that as the heroes get stronger, so do the villains– this is crucial if stories are going to be compelling. But are the villains really THAT much more powerful now? And how the hell did they describe current Superman being so much more powerful than a few years ago?

Please don’t think I’m asking with a cynical tone, because I’m not; I’m asking because it just seems a little bewildering that Superman and company have become THAT ridiculously powerful.

Haha, the more I think about it, the less I even care about DC– that is, if THE flagship character is really that omnipotent.

#6 Tim says:
March 16th, 2010 at 12:10 am

LOL. Mxy has been defeated by Batman! hahah.

#7 Tim says:
March 16th, 2010 at 12:12 am

Galactus is omnipotent, and very underrated as to what his powers actually are, in fact he can warp space, time,
matter, energy, life, death, minds, and create pocket universes for starters. also though it never has been said, i’m inclined to think he’s one of the beings in the MU that is immune to reality warping effects, as Surfer already has been shown to be.

#8 Pete says:
March 16th, 2010 at 12:30 am

I’m sorry, but I’ve personally seen Superman whooped by Batman so many times that I can’t believe he could possibly beat Thor. There was that time in Hush when Poison Ivy had also taken control of Superman. By using a kryptonite ring that Superman entrusted to him, Batman takes him down.

He also held him off once by using an entire city’s power grid.

There was the time Bats used Synthesized Kryptonite, power armour, missiles, to beat Superman.

There was Commie Superman vs Commie Batman

Batman, now one of Ronnie Raygun’s beloved mujaheddins has vowed to crush the criminal USSR and wired his guts to blow up. Superman the big Stalinist super solider confronts Batman. X-ray visions the Batman and sees that he’s rigged to go boom. In the mean time Batman is cooking Superman with red solar lamps. Superman in-character continues to gloat, he is unimpressed, laughs at Batman saying ‘are you trying to give me a sun rash’.

Batman walks up to Superman, smacks him right in the face, Superman tumbles backwards heads over heels crying “OMG how did you get so super strong!?”

Also the World’s Finest mini in which Batman allows himself to be possessed by Blaze in order to take down a bewitched Superman. Batman with super strength/durability, mystical armor, flight, and a magic sword managed to keep Superman at bay until Superman came to his senses somehow (I forget the specifics).

I can post scans where Supes is hurt by a nuke in the fight with Doom!

#9 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 12:40 am

What don’t you understand Pete? Supes managed to beat a PC Kryptonian who can alter time with one punch. Just so you know, PC Kryptonians are way too strong. Do I have to name Emperor Joker to defend Mr Mxy? Alberto already showed you scans about him. If he can give all those powers to The Joker, who doesn’t have a freaking special ability, he must be really strong. Why is he getting beaten? Like Alberto said, he wants to have fun.

#10 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 12:43 am

Pete : For Supes weakness, Delta posted a scan (or Alberto did) showing Superman bringing one of his ennemy in the core of a Red Sun and that Red Sun is sorounded by Green Kryptonite. So kind of ”Asteroid Belt” in kryptonite. The Kryptonite is already one of his weakness but than, if he’s that weak, how did he managed to survive in the Red Sun with Kryptonite around him? (And I think it was during the battle with SuperBoy-Prime, I am not sure).

#11 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 1:28 am

Ok first things first

About the canon thing

This is the e-mail I recived:

“hi Alberto,

excuse me for the delay in the reply, but I don’t found the Tom Brevoort’s post on ComixFan Message Board that I had indicated to you in the last mail.

Maybe that discussion has been erased or archivied by the board’s administrators… and if you search “Tom Brevoort Jla/Avengers canon” into Google, among the results there is…

http://www.comixfan.com/xfan/forums/archive/index.php/t-38189.html
Comixfan Forums – Question about inter-company crossovers…
Tom Brevoort. Mar 20, 2006, 04:32 pm. Which ones are considered canon? I recall hearing that the Marvel vs. DC from a few years back are, and JLA/Avengers …

…but when you click on the result the link related is broken and appear an error message on page. I’m sorry.

However, about the canonical of “JLA/AVENGERS” miniseries in relation to Marvel, the story is officially inserted in the Avengers timeline, because is also referenced in the “Official Handbook of The Marvel Universe: Avengers 2005″ (see the image below).”

I already tried to acces the link by other means but I could not do it. It seems the older post in comixfan in the avengers forum is about July 2006, Tom Brevoort’s post happened at Mar 20, 2006, 04:32 pm.

I can’t get it, but this is just to show that I did not tried to hide the information from any of you.
This was already too late however, but We have a time and a place of when this happened, so there take it anyway you want.

Also there is also one more page of the handbook making reference to this event in the avengers handbook.

THIS ARE 3 REALLY CONSISTENT MISTAKES IN THE HANDBOOKS, THIS ARE NOT TYPO ERRORS LIKE MAGENTO’S NAME, THIS ARE 3 DESCRIPTIONS OF A SINGLE EVENT IN 3 DIFFERENT BOOKS, not typos, but a whole event “mistake”

So, ANYWAY. Take it anyway you want. I can’t get anymore info on the matter, there is the broken link, the google search, the 3 printed EVENT references (not typo mistakes), and the vaguely references in the Marvel and DC.

#12 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 1:30 am

Avengers Reference

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/securedownload.jpg?t=1258507784

#13 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 2:01 am

Ok then

About this whole thing of who is stronger or more powerful

There is one thing, that some of you guys forget

I have been reading comics for more than 20 years and unlike many of you guys I read from both companies. I however recognize, that Delta has more knowledge than me on general.

One of the main reasons why Marvel was invented by Stan Lee, it was to create a “real world” populated by superheroes, Superheroes that have flaws and are not perfect, like their counterparts in DC. A more “REAL” superhero means also, that He is not uber powerful as his counterparts in DC. DC is full of fantastic characters and generaly more powerful than their Marvel counterpart.

The scales of power are completelly different on both universes, while we rarely see The Living Tribunal getting involved in earth matters, We often see the Spectre getting involved in earth matters.
While most of the Marvel limited series revolve arround getting invaded by the skrulls, a superpowerful mutant or a green guy in a rampage.
Most of DC’S limited series revolve arround the dectrution of the universe, universes or multiverse.

I think the difference is pretty obvious on the power scale.

Don’t get me wrong, I know about the Beyonder and the Gauntlet but you seem to forget that DC has KRONA, ANTI-MONITOR, FULL POWER PARALLAX, MANDRAKK and EMPEROR JOKER.

Even the Beyonder was retcon, because for Marvel standards He was too powerful. Remember when the beyonder came to earth? ALL of the cosmic entyties tried to stop him, even the Living Tribunal.

But when Thanos got the gauntlet, The Living Tribunal refused to fight claiming that it was natural order, well the beyonder was also natural order and yet he fought.

The bayonder was latter retcon and depowered

You see? This is the main difference between both universes one is more “Real” the other one is more “Unreal”

The power scales are bigger in DC

#14 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 2:17 am

@Jesse

I love the whole dragon ball and dragon ball z sagas
I just watch the GT crap

Superman is not omnipotent, he has done pretty crazy things, but He is close to PC LEVEL again.

Remember that Superman got Revamp after IC because it was too dificult to the writers to come up with new villians and plots. There will be a time in the future, where they might need to revamp the character again for th new generations.

But on Final Crisis Superman fused with Ultraman and both created a thought robot with a cosmic armor and fougth against a multiverse vampire?
Yes is kind of wakky, but hell is fantasy after all.

One of the things that I love about Goku, it was how he was able to make his enemies into allies and how pure he was. Superman is in many ways the same
He is just too nice, like Goku, but Superman never kills, not even insects!!! That is the whole concept behind him, He is the son in the holy trinity. As wakky as that sounds

#15 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:54 am

@General Grievous

1.- Is not that I Finally making a legitimate argument

Is that you finally are understanding and learning how and when to use the word hyperbole.

Just because Mister Mxyzptlk has not shown that kind of power before, does not mean he does not have the power at all, after all, Mister Mxyzptlk is explaining why He has never showed that kind of power.

If Emperor Joker can make the Spectre a loony and not any Spectre by the way! but Hal Jordan Spectre it is pretty clear to me that He can do the same with his Marvel Counterpart AKA The Living Tribunal which is clearly way above Galactus.

Now, you are confusing comic book facts here my friend, the event in which The Spectre was imprisoned happened in “Crisis Time Five” saga not on the “Emperor Joker” saga

A being from the 5th dimension can use his mastery of 5th dimensional science (NOT MAGIC) to shape reality in the 3rd dimension. They can manipulate time and matter with a thought and can impose new laws of physics just by thinking.

Only mischief is permitted on the 3rd dimension, that is why EMPEROR JOKER GOT AWAY with it.

LKZ VS YZ on crisis time five was a “clan conflict”

For a 5th dimension beings our universe is nothing but a cartoon, meaning ANYONE LIVING IN THE 3RD DIMENSION is a cartoon for them and a 4th dimension being is like a 3D cartoon for them.

Mister Mxyzptlk and 5th dimension beings are really powerful, more powerful than 3D OR 4D bound cosmic entities.

2.- Superboy Prime and Superman from earth 2 (AKA Kal-L) Are in fact PC Kryptonians. You want the scans?

3.-Superboy Prime changing reality with his punches is described by Luthor as “miraculous”, true if Luthor theory was right, the universe of singular earth was not “fully settled yet”, still the feat is not shorter than a miracle, performed by Superboy Prime.

4.- Spiderman defeating Firelord, It has been already dissected and explained. Spiderman wearing a symbiote suit and Firelord unconsciously letting himself to be defeated, because He wants to regain his humanity

5.- Superman and the mini black hole.
True GL helped to move the mini black hole, still Superman contained the expansion and GL helped to move it. Then Superman creates a electrostatic field and GL corrals it with magnetism. Then Superman THROWS the mini black hole to the worm hole. Where are the missing facts?

6.- You still have not answered
How come a guy who first contained, lift and throw a mini black hole, then Survived and escaped a double black hole, then patched a tear in reality, then shatter reality with his punches will not be able to lift a book with the multiverse inside?

That seems pretty consistent to me, that He is getting stronger

7.- A book with the multiverse inside is a Metaphor
Why? The book seems pretty heavy to me, thus making the allusion of a multiverse inside a book = A MULTIVERSE INSIDE A REALLY HEAVY BOOK THAT CAN ONLY BE LIFTED BY SUPERPEOPLE

If it where a hyperbole then the book will be represented as a book with normal weight = A MULTIVERSE INSIDE A NOT HEAVY BOOK THAT ANYONE CAN LIFT

8.- Superman did infact survived by himself a blast from IMPEREX PRIME where Doomsday did not. At the time of the blast Superman was not fused with strange visitor.
Imperex Prime is as consistent as it can be.
He was defeated by all of the Amazons, Apokolips, Earth, Warworld, The remains of Almerac, Rann, Superpeople of earth, Tamaran, Atlantis and a Sun dipped Superman. How is that not consistent?

Now come to think of it Imperex Prime can Defeat a Normal Galactus and put up a good fight against a full force Galactus.

#16 Superman says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:26 am

I’m too powerful…

#17 General Grievous says:
March 16th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

Alberto, obviously your knowledge of comic books is much more limited than what you claim. Have you ever heard of the Spiderman vs. Firelord exemption in vs debates? Spiderman vs. Firelord refers to any time when a character performs a feat that their powers and skills should be blatantly insufficient for, and is not repeated or is rarely repeated again relative to the character’s overall established career, as well as the character’s opponents’ established showings. In statistical terms, it is an outlier, something that is radically beyond the character’s established capabilities. For example, Spiderman defeating a herald of Galactus is a case of the SvFL exemption; however, Batman being able to sneak up on Superman is not because he has done so frequently under different writers. For standard vs debates, feats considered to fall under the SvFL exemption are not valid. Likewise, examples of writing which go against firmly set canon are also ignored. For example, in Larry Hama’s run of Batman and Grell’s run of Iron Man, both characters were out of character and did things very much against established canon; therefore those runs are disregarded.

#18 General Grievous says:
March 16th, 2010 at 1:21 pm

Also, its pretty obvious you have no idea what a metaphor is.

#19 General Grievous says:
March 16th, 2010 at 1:43 pm

Thor defeating Galactus is an example of the Spiderman vs Firelord exception. If you look at Galactus’s feats (even when he’s hungry…for some reason people who have no clue about comic books …. I’m talking to you, Alberto… think a Hungry Galactus is as powerful as Spiderman. Here’s a newsflash, he’s still insanely powerful. Way beyond Thor.) See, the difference between the Thor side and the Superman side is the Thor side can accept that Thor is not an omnipotent god. The Superman side is unwilling to believe Superman can lose. Another example of your exteme insanity/stupidity/blindness is comparing Emperor Joker to the Living Tribunal. Someone who believes that clearly jerks off to DC comics every day and has no idea what the LT is. Can EJ also defeat the One Above All?

“Mister Mxyzptlk and 5th dimension beings are really powerful, more powerful than 3D OR 4D bound cosmic entities.”

I love how you constantly make these statements out of left field, like they are facts, while offering no proof whatsoever.

Can you prove LT is a 3D being?

Prove the multiverse is inside the book. How can the multiverse be inside a book when SUperman and Captain Marvel clearly weren’t inside it. Neither was the place where they were. You still don’t grasp the meaning of hyperbole do you? Is English your first language, because you seem to have problems understanding very simple words?

How does a guy who in one comic struggles to move a small planet, is suddenly able to lift infinite weight? How is a guy who’s main villians consist of Lex Luthor, the Toymaster, and the Prankster …AND who has been defeated by BATMAN on at least 5 occasions…who has trouble with a ROBOT named Metallo… who been hurt by a SINGLE nuke…how is this guy all of a sudden able to lift a book with infinite weight? By the way, I just looked at the scan and it doesn’t even say it has infinite WEIGHT. Just infinite pages. And only Captain Marvel says that. How can Captain Marvel KNOW that? Can he see all the infinite pages? Even IF it does have infinite weight, it still falls under the Spiderman vs Firelord exception. I guess this is how desperate the Superman side is. Resorting to one time QUESTIONABLE feats like this. If he ever lifts infinite weight in the future again, I’ll come to where you are and pay you $100 in person.

#20 Millenium says:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

@General Grievous:New’s Flash, the Only reason superman has trouble with Metallo is because he is powered by his ultimate weakness…Kryptonite wich he has defeated on many occcasions. And as For Luther, unlike Odin, Superman dosen’t kill anyone unless completely necessary and even that’s questionable. As for batman, he also had Kryptonite so thats a given but had he not, Superman would have ripped his head off. I got to go but i will be back to finish this!!!!

#21 General Grievous says:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:51 pm

@Millenium:

What’s your “excuse” for Superman having trouble with Toymaster or Prankster? Also, you do realize that Batman has given Superman trouble even without Kryptonite, right? How about the time he neutralized him with the entire city’s power grid? Funny, how Superman fans say Thor would never land a blow on Superman because he’s too fast, yet a ROBOT can hit him. I’ve seen Batman Judo toss Superman, and he’s a normal human. (No Kryptonite involved in that one either).

Also you do realize another of Superman’s weaknesses is magic. And Thor has magic in spades. Including the ultimate magical weapon. Even his lightning is magic.

And guys like the Silver Surfer can make Kryptonite radiation at will. And dont give me the old “Surfer would never know about his weakness, because he detected Gladiator’s weakness.

#22 General Grievous says:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:52 pm

Wrong, Alberto. Anti Monitor thinks he could blow up that universe with Anti Mater, he is sadly wrong, especially when Galactus EATS his anti matter energy. You could say that it is a tie. Galactus eats planet`s energy,while the Anti-Monter can fire energy. But if someone had to win, I would go with Galactus. Galactus would just eat his energy till he is nothing but an empty husk. Also remember that Galactus is a multiple galaxy destroyer at full power. And the minute he dies, Abraxas comes out, who’s even worse.
Galactus eats ALL energy, the Eatting world’s bit, it is not the mineral he is eating, but the life forces/energies sof that world, and when desperate, and no worlds are around, he could just eat a sun. So he’s not limited to destroying planets. Galactus destroys planets like your or I destroy a cookie. They’re his food. Besides, he could use the Ultimate Nullifier.

#23 Rick says:
March 16th, 2010 at 6:03 pm

I’m going to call bullshit here as well.

The only reason Antimonitor beat down Spectre was because of extenuating circumstances…

The AM was pumped up by all the heroes that went to the Dawn of Time as well…

Also, he didn’t beat him, he was just holding him off (which is no small feat, I admit) until the time he knew that Krona would view his hand.

#24 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 12:33 am

General Someone : Thats where you are wrong. Anti-Monitor isn’t using some low energy to destroy planets and universes. Did Galactus actually ate his energy? You got the scans? I don’t think so. There is a difference between the two : Anti-Monitor killed Supergirl (A PC Kryptonian), killed The Flash and much more. And god, he had all the DC Superheroes against him. If Imperiex Prime can be a threat to Galactus, Anti-Monitor would destroy Galactus. We are talking about someone who has the power of :

Near limitless cosmic powers;
Matter and energy manipulation
Reality warping
Absorption of entire universes
Superhuman strength and durability

And god, if Thor or any other Superheroes of DC of Marvel would have been hit by the Anti-Monitor blast, they would all have been killed. Imagine AM appearing in the Marvel Universe for a second. Who would beat him? Spiderman? Invisible Woman? The Thing?

#25 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 12:36 am

@General Grievous

I gave specific points to be answered, yet you still jump from one to another.

Is it or is it not believable that spiderman can defetat firelord if firelord lets himself to be defeated and spiderman is wearing a symbiote?

Just answer the questions.

And it seems to me that you just learned the word Hyperbole, because you want to use it for everything.

One more thing. I already ask people who actually know english, 3 different persons agree that the book incident is a methaphor saying that the BOOK HAS THE MULTIVERSE INSIDE. EVERYTHING INSIDE, HOW MUCH DOES EVERYTHING WEIGHTS? Do you need somebody to explicit tell you that EVERYTHING IN THE MULTIVERSE WEIGHTS A LOT? OR CAN YOU FIGURE IT OUT BY YOURSELF?

Galactus hungry is defeatable, just deal with it man

He is actually a Hyperbole, he is not omniscient and omnipotent. For a guy who uses that word in all of his arguments you seem to forget a lot that Galactus is actually full of hyperboles, he claims but it is shown different, AKA geting his ass kicked by Thor.

Galactus being Omniscient and Omnipotent is a HYPERBOLE that is why HE GETS DEFEATED!!!

#26 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 1:34 am

Ion would be a pain in the ass for Galactus too.

#27 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:22 am

General : For Superman struggling, the writters are getting close to the PC Superman we knew. He ”evolved” to a point that he can do things that nobody thought he could do. PC Superman could lift everything, do what he wanted. The Superman we know if getting close to the PC Superman. Really close. The writters won’t just cross the line to make him ”invincible”.

#28 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:38 pm

@General Grievous

The Spiderman vs. Firelord exemption in vs debates?

IS JUST A JUSTIFICATION SO YOUR FAVORITE CHARACTER DOES NOT GETS “DEFEATED”

Most of the time when this type of events happen there is an explination to it, sometimes is a good explination sometimes is PIS

if it does not gets explained, the next writter will twist it or retcon the event, as simple as that!

Thor defeating Galactus: Galactus was weakened maybe to only 10% of his power!!!

If Galactus losses all of his power it means He has 0% of his power, He is still Galactus, but powerless
No omniscient , no omnipotent what is so hard to understand?

Everytime one of this things happen, every new geek screams “Spiderman vs. Firelord exemption” just to justify their favorite character loosing against another less powerful.

You know what is more credible? a powerful character that don’t considers a weaker character dangerous until is too late.

Like me stepping in an ant hill and staying there until is too late.

That is the actual exemption

Every one of those events has an explination

#29 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:14 pm

@General Grievous

What the hell are you smoking dude?

When did I COMPARED THE LT WITH EJ?

Do you know how to read???

I COMPARED THE LT WITH THE SPECTRE, That shows me rigth there, that you don’t know ho to read. Or you are not putting attention.

I SAID:

If EJ can transform the Spectre into a loney and the Spectre is the equivalent of the LT in Marvel
It means that EJ can do the same with the LT

No, EJ is not more powerful than The-One-Above-All
Which by the way is not the same as One Above All, they are two different entities in Marvel
One is the “Creator” the other one is a Celestial
The-One-Above-All is the creator
One above all is a celestial

is the LT or the Spectre bounded to 3D or 4D? maybe, maybe not
But as explained before if the power of an Imp can do that to the Spectre, I’m sure He can do the same to the LT

“Prove the multiverse is inside the book. How can the multiverse be inside a book when SUperman and Captain Marvel clearly weren’t inside it. Neither was the place where they were. You still don’t grasp the meaning of hyperbole do you? Is English your first language, because you seem to have problems understanding very simple words? ”

Oh my god, not this again

So by your definition Limbo is not inside the multiverse? hahahahahahaha that is rich

Didn’t they say the book has the multiverse growing inside as in a multiverse inside a book.

Metaphor:

A figure of speech in which a word or phrase that ordinarily designates one thing is used to designate another, thus making an implicit comparison, as in “A MULTIVERSE IN A BOOK” or “A SEA OF TROUBLES”

By you saying
“Even IF it does have infinite weight, it still falls under the Spiderman vs Firelord exception”

You actually acknowledge the fact that is possible that you are wrong but won’t accept it because “the Spiderman vs Firelord exception”

Well Superman’s incresing powers are really consistent during the last 15 years so I guess this sends your argument of “Spiderman vs Firelord exception” right out the door

If he does this again, I’ll contact you for my $100

Full power Galactus vs Anti-monitor
I’ll put my $100 on Crisis Anti-monitor

#30 Pete says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:30 pm

Someone is on serious crack if they think Anti-Monitor can defeat Galactus.

#31 Pete says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

Shadowhunter…You’re problem in your logic is that you’re assuming Imperiex is a threat to Galactus. He’s not. Not even close.

#32 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:31 pm

@Pete

Well dude, is my money

#33 Pete says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:33 pm

How can a book have the multiverse inside and still be lifted by someone INSIDE the multiverse? Do you understand how insane you are?

#34 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:34 pm

@Pete

Are you another one of those guys who don’t understand the scales of power on both universes and only reads Marvel?

#35 Pete says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:36 pm

“You actually acknowledge the fact that is possible that you are wrong but won’t accept it because “the Spiderman vs Firelord exception”"

That’s because only Superman fanboys refuse to acknowledge they could possibly ever be wrong. Here’s the standard Superman fanboy argument:

Superman can do anything. He gets more and more powerful each issue of every comic, so if he had problems somewhere, its only because that was one issue ago when he was weaker.

If he was as omnipotent as you and Delta claim, no one would read the comics because they would be BORING. (I guess this is why Marvel sells more comics that DC).

#36 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:42 pm

@Pete

Hey did I wrote the story?

Are We reading a fictional novel or a fact book?

Do you understand how naive you sound?

#37 Pete says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:49 pm

The book having infinite weight should have meant the universe it was on should have been crushed under a weight equivalent to its own. And omnipresence doesn’t equal infinite weight, otherwise every omnipotent would have infinite weight.

Omnipresence does not equal infinite mass in comic books anymore than ‘omnipotent’ really means omnipotent. The infinite pages thing was just a way of saying that Superman and Captain Marvel are incredibly strong. The book weighed a lot. Clearly its weight was not infinite nor was Superman’s or Cap’s strength infinite. If Superman’s strength was infinite, why would he need Cap to help him? If the weight was infinite, it wouldn’t matter how strong they were. The status quo would be maintained and it wouldn’t budge.

Besides, if logic worked like that, we could claim Adam Warlock was one of the strongest beings ever. The Soul Gem contains and entire reality inside it and he’s picked the gem up between two fingers and worn it on his forhead.

Not to mention the basic rule still stands; even if the book had infinite weight, one time feat way above the character’s usual range and powerset equals Spiderman vs Firelord.

Remember the first Men in Black movie? The cat was carrying a universe in his collar, but you don’t hear anyone arguing that the cat had superstrength. This is like that only that the book was a bit heavier. It is completely worthless as an argument.

#38 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 4:53 pm

@Pete

No, Superman is not omnipotent, HE IS A FICTIONAL CHARACTER

Fortunatelly for us Superman holds back most of the time and DC has great writters like Grant Morrison and Waid, WHO are not bounded TO WRITE by our physics laws and understant the term “FICTIONAL”

To me they are not booring and waaay better that those emo-pleasing stories that sometimes you see in Marvel

If Marvel Sells more, oh well, big deal.

Is perfectly acceptable, after all Marvel superheroes are more REAL and DC superheroes are more FANTASTIC.

As simple as that

#39 Pete says:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:00 pm

Yes, Marvel sells more by a factor or 3 to 1. Its not even close.

#40 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:13 pm

@Pete

Like is said, it was a metaphor.

How heavy the book is, We have no idea, however asuming that it has the Multiverse inside it has to be really heavy, how much? I don’t know, but really heavy none the less.

Ultraman who is the equivalent of Superman lift the book by himself, this means that SUPERMAN MAY be able to the same

Infinite weight shall not apply because of the rule of becoming a paradox, But then lest called the feat as it is

“Superman and Captain Marvel lifted a book with the multiverse growing inside of it”

“Or Ultraman lift a book with the multiverse growing inside”

Does that sounds better?

Adam Warlock
The soul gem is the GATEWAY to an idyllic pocket-universe.

Again with the spiderman firelord exemption
If this was the first time of Superman doing something as crazy as that. I would not even count it, However, please explain to me

If a guy who can contain a mini black, then survive and scape a double black hole, then patch a tear in reality, then shatter time and space with his punches, will not be able to lift a book with the multiverse inside?

Please somebody explain!!!

How is this feat inconsistent to what Superman has done in recent years?!

#41 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

Marvel sells more

#42 Alberto says:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:15 pm

Please don’t make me cry

#43 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 7:38 pm

Alberto : Yes, I think Pete is only on Marvel. He’s Galactus boyfriend, maybe.

#44 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 2:58 am

Krona is way more powerful than a Full Force Galactus. As Entropy, Krona was composed of anti-energy, could absorb others into his body, converting them into more anti-energy, and was able to create an army composed of anti-energy that were completely under his control. During the JLA/Avengers miniseries, where he wielded the power of all the universes he had previously destroyed, Krona proved able to easily defeat both the Grandmaster and Galactus. Maybe it wasn’t canon but still, Krona is more powerful than Galactus.

#45 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:05 am

Alberto : You forgot Asmodel who’s really powerful.

#46 Dave says:
March 16th, 2010 at 2:53 pm

Point: Superman couldn’t budge the book, but with Cap Marvel’s help was enough to lift the book. If that book really had infinite weight, that scene seems to show that Superman *failed* to lift infinite weight and that Captain Marvel managed to lift infinite weight.

#47 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:31 pm

Dave : Man, can’t you read? Ultraman lifted the book by himself, Alberto already posted the scan. Ultraman is as strong as Superman. That means if he can hold it alone, without help, Superman can do it too.

#48 DictatorBB says:
March 16th, 2010 at 3:36 am

This Topic gets boring without Thor fans. :[

Alberto is sorry he did not use Lube this time…
Come back Thor fans! I miss you! D:

#49 ShadowHunter says:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:12 pm

Dictator : Maybe because Superman fans won the debate…?

#50 Pete says:
March 16th, 2010 at 5:30 pm

You are fucking delusional, ShadowHunter. It looks like Delta has abandoned the cause as lost. He hasn’t responded to any of the criticisms leveled against Superman lately. And without him, you guys really have nothing.

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