Thor vs. Superman

1,822 Comments

#1 Alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 12:16 am

I guess the new name for Duke is “douche”, right douche?

#2 Mike says:
November 21st, 2009 at 12:20 am

Read the whole comic, dumbass.

#3 Alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 12:39 am

Well Einstein

That is what the scan states, and THAT IS THE EVIDENCE!!!

Scan the whole fucking thing and post it. So you prove your point, dumbass

#4 Alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 12:55 am

This is a Superman ridiculous feat

He trows his own blood, so fast, that He cracks a blade tempered in magic.

Notice WW states the Blade is Tempered in magic

and there is proof of the blood craking the handle of the blade.

This scan shows what I’m stating.

http://i647.photobucket.com/albums/uu200/biensalsa/spww21eo0wy.jpg?t=1257382086

Right DOUCHE?, I MEAN DUKE

#5 Alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 5:26 pm

Here is what Kurt Busiek himself had to say about this “Thrilla in…Metropolis”:

“I think Batman’s a very good fighter, but he’s very good at other things, too. Cap is more of a specialist — he’s The World’s Greatest Fighting Machine, to use his old tagline, while Batman is The World’s Greatest Detective. If the mission was finding the Maltese Falcon, I’d bet on Batman. If it’s a brawl, I’d bet on Cap….That they’re both so good they can recognize consummate skill even through only a few movements, and smart enough to admit it and focus on the real threat.”

Superman vs. Thor: Following the same logic he followed with Batman and Captain America, what path would these two powerhouses take? They would duke it out, and Busiek delivered and with a definite winner. Of course with a definite ending comes one faction berating the writer for an inaccurate depiction of their favorite hero. Busiek did post that this was not the Odinforce powered Thor, however.

Editorial: I am a Marvelite at heart, and I like Thor. So it did pain me to see Thor go down. However, in the depths of my heart, I knew this was the way it should turn out. Not because Superman is THE icon, but because even a post-Crisis Superman would win. Many will bring up Thor’s ability to create vortexes and all of the other neat tricks Mjolnir can do, but Thor’s history is to head in fist and hammer first, and unless he is on the ropes, Thor rarely utilizes his other abilities. I did find Superman’s recognition of Thor as maybe his single greatest opponent an appeasement in light of Superman having died at the hands of Doomsday.

Here is what Kurt Busiek himself had to say about this “Rumble in the Jungle”:

“As for Superman and Thor, it’s like he said — where he comes from, the dials go up to eleven. Superman is stronger and faster, which is probably more about the scales of power in the universe he comes from, but it was enough to let him win a very tough battle. If they fought again tomorrow, it might go the other way. Since being more powerful doesn’t make you a better character, I don’t see it as a slight on Thor, just as the way things are…”

#6 Alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 5:37 pm

Now just to end this debate on the JLA/AVENGERS canonical value.

The events WITHIN the miniseries are referenced by MARVEL in the “Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: Fantastic Four 2005″ (in the “Galactus” profile-bios) and in the “Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe: A to Z” (in the “Grandmaster” profile-bios) even though JLA is not mentionated (for copyright problems).

Besides, Tom Breevort confirmed the canonical of “JLA/Avengers” on ComixFan Message Board (in 2006).

Who is Tom Breevort? You might ask:
Tom Brevoort is Executive Editor for Marvel Comics As of 2007, he holds the title of Executive Editor with Marvel and is responsible for multiple series including New Avengers, Civil War, and Fantastic Four.

End of discusion. Period

#7 Ernest Manigo, Jr. says:
November 21st, 2009 at 11:37 pm

Superman defeats Thor. Superman is the strongest superheroe. Superman is as fast as The Flash. Having the strength of Superman and the speed of the Flash defeats all superheroes. Silver Surfer is the only problem and may defeat Superman. Silver Surfer may not actually qualify to be on the list of Super heroes. The power cosmic may put him on the level with The Elders or a young Watcher. Nevertheless, Superman moving at Flash level speed cannot be seen and actually places him in more than one place at one time! Doomsday was defeated by Superman. Niether Superman nor Doomsday died. Doomsday was the experiment that led to the physiology of the modern Kryptonian so Superman actual can’t be defeated the same way twice either and is a “better” Doomsday. He just always holds back even though he often stated he’ll “let go”. If Thor fought Darksied, He’d lose just as Thanos has always defeated Thor. Superman would destroy both.

To be fair, Superman has a super mind. If Batman trained Superman to fight all martial art styles and Flash showed superman how to use his superspeed optimally, and Wonder Woman showed him how to use his Heat vision, freeze breath and flight more effectively, NO ONE WOULD DEFEAT HIM.

He can block nd avoid kryptonite with his heat vision, freeze breath and flight powers. He can avoid magic influence with super speed by knocking out foes before they can flinch.

Understand this people?

#8 you says:
November 21st, 2009 at 1:51 am

Yalls need to get a life stop doing this and get a house and get a girlfriend geez…

#9 alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 3:00 pm

Someone who says “Yalls” should not give advices.

Unless the advice is to learn how to use slang “properly”

#10 President Steve says:
November 21st, 2009 at 3:02 pm

Who cares what Busiek says? Did you know Greg Pak says that the Hulk is the most powerful character in all of Marvel? Writers are fanboys too.

#11 President Steve says:
November 21st, 2009 at 3:17 pm

Also, if you look back in the comments, Odinson has shown us plenty of examples in scans that completely contradict what you said about Thor never using other powers. I can also provide even more than that. Thor’s energy manipulation rivals that of the Surfer (with the Odinforce he was by far the superior of the Silver Surfer). In fact without the Odinforce, he has held his own with energy manipulation against the Surfer, and defeated him.

On an interesting side note, I am curious as to what Delta thinks about this question: Is Odin more powerful than Galactus if we look at feats? I’ve always wondered about this question. A case can certainly be made for Odin being above Galactus, though I’m not sure I buy it. I realize that it should be an open and shut case here that Galactus trumps Odin, but Odin has destroyed Galaxies.

Galactus’ demonstrations of power are no greater than Odin’s, and often inferior in some cases.

There is no actual demonstration in existence involving Galactus destroying galaxies, positive proof, nor concrete evidence thereof. One impressive feat from Galactus though is a battle with Agamotto in Agamotto’s own realm, and his battling of and defeating of Mephisto in his own realm via threatening to absorb it after neither could gain an advantage in combat. Worth noting is that in his battle with Mephisto, Galactus did successfully destroy a myriad of planets in his efforts. He fought and stalemated the In Betweener in a joke of a confrontation, which Galactus seemed to gain the upper hand in with a judo toss, as he apparently took lessons from Captain America somewhere down the line. Galactus defeated the Sphinx rather casually, crushing the Kaa Stone in his hand as if it were nothing. Casual stuff like teleporting galaxies and devolving Hercules into protoplasma, and creating immensely powerful heralds may be considered as well, but the ones above are mainly his top feats.

Odin has matched all of those feats, as well as surpassed them some areas. He has, with definitive certainty, destroyed entire galaxies in his battles with Seth in an effort that shook the entire universe and tore at the very fabric of the multiverse. He rattled across the entire universe in his battle with Forsung, which blew away planets like dry sand castles, and created heat so intense entire burning stars were created in its wake, as they blew each other to the ends of the universe. Odin battled Infinity in a confrontation that could be seen as far away as from Earth (Earth was just about destroyed), as the very laws of physics were being warped across the entire Unviverse. Casual stuff such as teleporting all the people of Earth to another dimension, creating powerful artifacts, wiping out populations, creating a realm complete with false gods, waving his hand over a regular apple and giving the apple the power to warp reality over entire planets, or shattering the Sword of Doom can also be considered.

These aren’t all Silver Age feats either. JIM #513, which contains Odin’s last galaxy busting performance with Seth, hit the shelves in 1997, making the Silver age argument silly.

However. Even more recently, Odin showed up and told Thor that he had the power to shake the entire universe. I’d say that was figurative if Odin hadn’t already done it before.

It should be noted that Thor with the Odinforce has been stated on panel to be much more powerful than Odin. And with the power of the Runes, he was even more powerful than that to the point of being virtually omnipotent.

#12 alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 3:39 pm

@President.

The only difference between Pak and Busiek is that:

Pak was just talking and He could not put it into practice. He “claimed” that WWH version of Hulk was the strongest version of them all, that he was the strongest in Marvel and that He was even stronger than Superman.

He said that, in an interview to hype the book sales

The truth was, that Hulk never did anything to show that He was actually in fact the strongest character in Marvel U

For once He did not fight Black Bolt
Dr. Stranger let himself to be defeated
Stalemate the Sentry
Hulk did not fought against Thor or the Silver Surfer
The strugle with the Juggernaut was inconclusive

You see, all this things and He claimed that Hulk was the Strongest in MU in an interview to hype the sales of the book, but the directors in Marvel did not let him change anything in the Hulk Mythology.

He just stated that Hulk was the strongest but he did not show anything.

Busiek on the other hand did, he is not even a Superman fan, He is a Marvel Fan and He admits that Thor is one of his favorites, if He were a fanboy like Pak, He would have given the victory to Thor, not to Superman.

Agreed, this is only the interpretation of one writter and the next time it could be different.

But I just showed to everyone who did not believe it, that officialy the score is 1-0 in favor of Superman.

I’m actually aware that being the most powerful (Thor or Superman) does not make you unbeatable.

But right now as it stands is 1-0

#13 alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 3:47 pm

I agee

Thor with Odinforce is pretty scary and with Odinforce I think Thor is more powerful

But I think the Odinforce is just a temporary power up, like a sundip Superman or Superman Prime One million.

If people like to take this power ups into account

We will never end and actually that is fine with me

I rather have something to write to someone than nothing at all

#14 Rick says:
November 21st, 2009 at 4:19 pm

Fucking idiot, the Silver Surfer would destroy Odin, nevermind Galactus himself. Galactus would crush Odin like a fucking fly.

#15 alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 4:47 pm

@Rick

How many times have the Surfer defeated Thor?

Lets see if you know this one

#16 Jesse says:
November 21st, 2009 at 6:56 pm

@ Alberto:

Sorry I am a bit late with this; you had asked if anyone thinks that Superman can outrun Mjolnir when thrown? Here is where I think that “belief factor” plays into a comic book fight.

We all know that Superman is incredibly fast and has crazy speed feats– that being said, most people would probably believe that Superman would win in “a race” between himself and a Thor thrown hammer. It is true that we have no proof that Thor’s magical lightning bolts move faster than regular lightning, nor do we have an exact measure of their speed. But I don’t think we really need a measurement more so than we need to establish (or believe) that a Thor lightning bolt would be his quickest, most efficient offensive attack.

How does this tie into “believing the fight”?
Well we see Thor and Superman trading blows in the Busiek fight (again, even as a Thor fan, I think this battle was overall well done). We see Superman landing hits and we see Thor landing hits (with his fists and with Mjolnir throws). Yes, Superman is faster than Thor, but not to a degree that these two wouldn’t be trading shots (Thor isn’t comparatively TOO SLOW).

So if Thor is fast enough to move and land blows on Superman, which he did, how then could Thor NOT land his quickest, most effective, offensive attack– a lightning bolt.

And I’m pretty sure I have seen Superman hit by things that weren’t moving at the speed of a lightning bolt, but slower. Again, we KNOW that Superman is incredibly fast, in both movement and reflexes, but he’s been hit (not by choice) by things slower than lightning.

#17 Alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:01 pm

@Jesse

I think there is a perfect explination for that. Not siding with Superman, but trying to show something that most of us, don’t remember.

Both Superman and Thor and anyother powerhouse in comics, Despite being so powerful, they are over confident and that is what makes them vulnerable, they never think about their weakness until they are against the ropes.

Now if We make up a story in which Superman is fighting against Thor, We can come up with 100 ways they can defeat each other.

If We put Superman exploiting the advantage of his Superspeed and actually using it, I personally don’t think Thor can hit Superman, I know Thor can swing his Hammer at twice the speed of light, which is a lot, but Superman moves and reacts way faster than that.

He usually does not use this advantage, because he does not need to, and when he does it, is because he really needs to, sometimes too late because of the overconfidence powerhouses have on their own superpowers.

The same thing will apply to Thor, I know he can move at superspeed, but He does that rarely and only uses it when he needs it.

This guys rarelly fight at full power, when they realize their mistakes sometimes is already too late and they get defeated.

I will agree that if Thor lands a few blows on Superman with Mjolnir, and if Superman does not find a way arround the fight goes to Thor. The same way if Thor could not find a way arround Superman’s superspeed.

All and all based on how this guys USUALLY fight. I will give the victory to Superman 6 or 7 out of 10 times.

This is only if Superman is facing regular Thor.

Odinforce FULL powered Thor is a different story, but like Delta said Odinforce it seems like a plot device the same way Sun-dip Superman.

As it is, is already hard to figure out who will win in their “clasical” versions. Bringing all this extra “powers” makes it even more difficult.

So, based on how Superman usually fights. I agree that Thor will be able to land punches and maybe lightning attacks, but as soon as Superman realizes the mystical origin of Thor’s power, He will adjust and avoid getting hit by it, with superspeed.

#18 Jesse says:
November 21st, 2009 at 1:35 pm

All good points, but the most important of all is this:

“Now if We make up a story in which Superman is fighting against Thor, We can come up with 100 ways they can defeat each other.”

I’ve tried to make this point on other heated threads that pit fictional characters against one another. The wonder of fiction is that the chracters, events, loacations, and scenarios of a story are 100% malleable. The stories, and our opinion on them are subjective, nothing more.

Well said Alberto.

That being said and acknowledged, perhaps now is the time to put this beaten horse down.

Thor vs Superman
The Winner: Whoever the writer wants.

#19 Delta says:
November 21st, 2009 at 11:01 pm

So, Mike, you just can’t admit that you don’t actually have an example of Silver Surfer using combat super speed, by the generally agreed upon definition, and just claim he can because you want him to. Just concede that’s the fact.

And this isn’t even taking into account that the scan that’s used to claim of Surfer attacking every city on Earth doesn’t even show him ATTACKING the cities, nor does it say he is. If he really is attacking them, then show us the scan, or at least provided a detailed explanation and issue reference. But the thing is, flying really fast and attacking cities does not equal combat speed. Knowing Surfer, it would’ve been energy blasts. Moving around and striking your opponent multiple times in a second is combat speed. Alberto showed scans of actual combat speed. Where’s your examples of Surfer doing this? Ya know, it’s called a “speed-blitz.”

I’ve seen Superman do this. I’ve seen Flash do this. Hell, I’ve seen Spider-Man do this. I’ve seen Orion essentially do this. The times I’ve seen him, he was attacking groups, and it only took one punch each, but he took them all down before they could react. I’ve yet to see Thor perform a speed-blitz, but I have seen him dig in a way that could translate as a speed-blitz. I have also seen Martian Manhunter speed-blitz once or twice.

I haven’t seen Wonder Woman or Captain Marvel do a speed-blitz against an opponent without super speed, but I have seen them keeping-up fighting people with super speed and using it. So they could speed-blitz someone, even if they don’t use it.

Also Mike, you reply to Alberto not even RESPONDING to you and say he needs to pay more attention? He was making a point completely unrelated to his arguing with you and didn’t put your name or anything.

#20 Delta says:
November 21st, 2009 at 1:29 am

Jesse…..

There are examples of Superman withstanding electric attacks. Earliest I know of is ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN #480. Eradicator manipulates at least three lightning bolts to simultaneously hit Superman, and Superman’s unfazed. Also, in JLA #20 he withstands an electrical charge that takes-down the rest of the JLA, including Martian Manhunter and Orion, and Superman’s still standing. The En’Tarans know they can’t hurt Superman, so use hurting others to keep him in line. So quite impressive that Superman shrugs-off something that takes-down Orion and Martian Manhunter. SUPERMAN: THE MAN OF STEEL #94 he shrugs-off multiple blasts from Parasite having taken Strange Visitor’s powers, though one could argue it was electromagnetic and not electricity. In JSA #33, a mind-controlled Superman’s hand casually blocks an electric blast from a desperate Black Lightning. A couple other examples.

Problem though is you’d have to actually PROVE that Thor’s lightning would take Superman down. Shazam wasn’t able to take Superman down with his attacks, and Shazam’s Skyfather-level. The best argument you could make is Thor’s lightning would hurt Superman a bit more than Superman being hit by an equivalent amount of conventional electricity. I’ve given these examples before. Years ago when Superman actually could be hurt by a nuke, there’s two examples of him being hit by mystical energy, whether a blast or an explosion, equivalent to a strategic nuclear detonation. SUPERMAN(Volume Two) #23 Superman is knocked-out but other-wise uninjured by a mystical explosion that destroys an island. In WAR OF THE GODS #4 Superman uses his body to block an energy blast from Circe that would have destroyed Paradise Island. Superman’s hurt but not incapacitated. And these examples are from when Superman could be hurt by nukes. Now he shrugs-off mystic energy blasts from Skyfather-level characters, and has done it on several occasions, including when weaker than he is currently.

A problem though with your belief that Thor could hit Superman with his lightning is the fact that, during their fight, Superman wasn’t using his speed. So there’s no indication that Thor would have much of a chance if Superman were to out-right speed-blitz Thor. As to Superman’s speed VS lightning’s speed, when Superman was FAR slower than he is now, he showed to be quite a bit faster than lightning. In SUPERMAN(Volume Two) #39, he states, “At SUPER-SPEED, the lightning appears to be traveling in SLOW-MOTION to me–.” He then proceeds to exceed it’s speed, catch-up to it, and maneuver himself so that the lightning rod on his back would catch it. A little over 2 years before this, in SUPERMAN(Volume Two) #13 he flew around the equator in seconds. Again, these are when he was far slower than he is now. There’s numerous examples of him out-right OUT-RACING energy, not just dodging it. Including one where he’s out-racing AND blocking/deflecting multiple radiation beams like he was speed-blitzing. Examples of him being hit by things slower than lightning are of him not actively using his speed, but there’s no question that he could casually dodge multiple lightning strikes were he to be using it.

Also, lightning isn’t Thor’s quickest attack, as lightning is well below the speed of light. Thor’s other energy blasts would be quicker.

Also, while it’s true that the writer can have a fight go however he/she wants, where’s the fun in just saying that?

#21 Delta says:
November 21st, 2009 at 2:41 am

Steve…..

Alberto already pointed-out differences between Greg Pak and Kurt Busiek, but I might as well comment too.

Greg Pak said all this about Hulk and his WORLD WAR HULK didn’t really show what he claimed. Hulk’s wins over Juggernaut weren’t very impressive. Hulk beat a weakened Juggernaut in a straight-up fight, then essentially won by Battlefield Removal against a fully powered Juggernaut. When War-Hulk faced Juggernaut, it was FAR more impressive. War-Hulk actually STOPPED Juggernaut, though it’s unlikely to have been purely through strength. War-Hulk also I believe was much stronger at base than even Professor Hulk, had Celestial tech and the entire energy out-put of a pocket dimension. Most of Hulk’s wins either weren’t all that impressive/against opponents he shouldn’t have much trouble with anyways, had serious Plot-Induced Stupidity, or had other circumstances(like Juggernaut being depowered or the fact that Hulk didn’t even beat the real Black Bolt).

The Superman/Thor fight on the other hand looked nothing like something a fanboy would right. Plus Kurt Busiek had also said something along the lines of there was more to the fight he had in mind, that he couldn’t show due to space constraints(since he had to have a lot of other fights shown), but he said essentially would have happened off-panel. Kurt stated that Superman’s stronger and faster than Thor, and few disagree with this, and the feats back it up.

On what Odinson showed, like Alberto’s quite said, Thor rarely uses his other abilities beside hitting things(with the occasional lightning bolt/weather control or general energy blast) other than in desperate situations. At least half the examples Odinson showed were in desperate situations, or examples Thor wouldn’t be likely to use in a fight against Superman.

On the Odin VS Galactus argument, it is true that Odin’s got the better feats, and larger number of them. Though Odin actually DOES stuff more often than Galactus, that’s worth noting. Also, Galactus is often weakened from his hunger.

But in terms of them actually being compared that I know of, Galactus has shown to be superior. Like during INFINITY GAUNTLET Odin and the rest of the Skyfathers were essentially trapped by Thanos, while the Entities weren’t. I don’t recall Thanos trying anything, but it seemed like if he thought the Skyfathers were enough of a threat to trap them, he would’ve stopped the Entities if he could. Also the fight had done comparable damage as the fights you mentioned Odin’s had, though it did have multiple Entities involved.

And the only time I’m aware of Galactus and Odin directly confronting each other, Odin only held his own, in his own realm.

I do see what you mean though, it just doesn’t work as well with the couple factors I mentioned. Skyfather-level characters do seem to be the most dangerous level though, from what I’ve seen. They’re powerful enough to hold their own against the Entities, but aren’t so high and mighty that they consider everything else a worthless fly. Entities often lose to lesser opponents due to not being aware of the danger the opponent actually posses, and underestimate them.

#22 Delta says:
November 21st, 2009 at 2:50 am

Rick, you’re the fucking idiot.

For one, Steve even stated that he doesn’t really think Odin is above Galactus. He simply showed that, surprisingly, Odin generally has the more impressive feats, even though he doesn’t think Galactus is below Odin.

And Silver Surfer would destroy Odin? What the FUCK are you smoking? Like Alberto said, how many wins does Silver Surfer have over THOR, let alone Odin? To my knowledge, Surfer has ONE win against Thor. And that was not only through a sucker-punch, but there were out-side circumstances messing with the Avengers. Other than that, Surfer’s closest to winning against Thor was drawing against Thor when Surfer was enhanced to an unknown degree by Loki’s magick.

On Odin VS Galactus, Odin actually held his own against Galactus, not being crushed like the fly you claim he would be. Odin also did rather decently against Eternity(or was it Infinity Steve? I thought the last time this was brought-up, you admitted you mixed the two up, though Infinity is just a counter-part to Eternity), who is ABOVE Galactus, though probably not VASTLY above Galactus.

And another factor on Silver Surfer destroying Odin…..you do know that when Thanos chose Silver Surfer to aid him in facing Odin, Odin one-shot knocked Surfer the fuck out, right? And then he proceeded to smack Thanos around like a pimp finding-out his ho held money from him. Thanos has out-right owned Silver Surfer before, and all Thanos managed to do was not get knocked-out. But that didn’t change a damn thing. Surfer wasn’t even a factor in the fight, and Odin was holding-back against BOTH Thanos and Surfer.

So who’s the fucking idiot now, Rick? Certainly not Steve, since you missed his point to begin with, and got everything else WRONG.

#23 Alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 4:28 pm

I guess this Topic is over and done with. I’m just goping the Thor Side puts some sort of a fight it was funny reading everything everyone was writing.

#24 Alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 4:30 pm

Hopping

#25 Ernest Manigo, Jr. says:
November 21st, 2009 at 5:38 pm

Odin is powerful. But Galactus is Galactus. They’re at different catergories. Galactus is more powerful.

Thor and Hercules are similar. Shazam has Hercules strenghth. The madder Hulk gets the stronger Hulk gets; but the more force or oppposition is upon Hercules, ther stronger he gets. Superman is stronger than Thor, Hulk, Hercules and Shazam and Wonder Woman. Shazam, Hercules, and Wonder Woman are at similar streghth levels until Hercules levels increase due to opposition force. Hercules and Hulk would be in an arm restle and tie. Thor strenght does not increase. His Bizerker rage is just a boost. Silver Surfer is able to manipulate molecules. He is more powerful than them all.
1. Silver Surfer
2. Superman
3. Thor
and so…

Reed Richards is the most intelligent, so he can defeat them all. He can achieve what the high evolutionary has and become a “god”(small “g”), or, create an energy source liken to the rings of OA for the greenlatern. He can do what scientist “Randolph” did to himself in Famtastic Four #216 Vol 1; he practically became a Watcher…

So, to conclude. Superman is as fast as Flash and should be able to tap into the speed force (a writer need to bring that in) and we already seen Superman vibrate like flash and go through solid objects (he did this on TV on “The Adventure of Superman”) and he has a supermind so Batman and Wonderwoman can teach him superior fighting skills which he’d remember, adapt to and perfect. Also, I’m tired of Superman was killed by Doomsday thing. If he was killed then why is he still around? Answer, he wasn’t killed.

#26 Delta says:
November 21st, 2009 at 5:51 pm

Wow Ernest, you don’t know what you’re talking about.

The Odin/Galactus thing was an interesting thing Steve brought-up. He wasn’t stating that Odin’s more powerful, he doesn’t think Odin is. But he was pointing-out that Odin does have the better feats.

Hercules has increasing strength? Since when? This is new to me, I’ve never seen his strength increase. And it’s Captain Marvel, not Shazam. Shazam is the name of the wizard who gave Billy the power to turn into Captain Marvel. HE’S NOT SHAZAM!!!!! And Captain Marvel is actually stronger than Hercules and Wonder Woman. In addition to having the strength of DC’s Hercules, the Power Of Zeus boosts his strength, I believe it was also stated he had the strength of Atlas in addition to Hercules.

If Silver Surfer being able to manipulate molecules makes him the most powerful of all, then Sersi is above him. Far as I can tell, she’s a more powerful matter manipulator than he is. I don’t actually think she’s more powerful than him, but if your argument is Surfer’s the most powerful because he can manipulate molecules, then Sersi is above him, far as I can tell, by your line of thinking.

Mr. Fantastic being able to think-up ways to beat them is for what? That doesn’t make him more powerful. What exactly was the point, especially since this isn’t the Top 10 Most Powerful Superheroes list?

Superman isn’t quite as fast as Flash, but he’s close. But just because he can move to comparable speeds to Flash doesn’t mean he can tap into the Speed Force. The Speed Force chooses who gets connected to it. So Superman’s speed alone doesn’t mean he can tap into the Speed Force.

And you’re using the ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN TV show to prove Superman can vibrate to become intangible? VERY bad argument. You’re lucky he’s actually demonstrated this in the comics so you can actually be right about this point. Too bad for you that you just happened to be right instead of were right by your argument.

And Superman did die after his fight with Doomsday. Doomsday died first. There were several factors that allowed Superman to return from the dead. He’s also died at least one other time, during OBSIDIAN AGE storyline, and mystical means revived him from the dead. The entire JLA had been killed, actually.

#27 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 6:12 pm

On the Odin vs Galactus thing, yeah, I have noticed Skyfathers also seem to be portrayed as more powerful than anything else (except they seem to have trouble with Celestials for some reason). I actually felt Thor had a better showing against a Celestial (Pre-Odin Force) than even Odin did. King Thor was greater than Odin, and Odin has been stated on panel as THE MOST POWERFUL SKYFATHER. (which might be why Galactus has had some trouble with him in the past). And Rune-King Thor puts King Thor to shame. So I would say Rune King Thor is quite definitely ahead of Galactus in power levels.

Of course we all know that Superman’s upper limits are ridiculous as well. As to who would win in classic Thor vs classic Superman… Well, I think Thor takes the majority here, just barely. I think 6-4 in favor of Thor. Maybe even 11-9. Both are quite capable of KO-ing the other. Anyone who tells me Thor is incapable of KO-ing Superman, hasn’t read many Thor comics (or Superman comics for that matter!). Superman has beend defeated by many beings weaker than Thor. (Same with Thor by beings less powerful than Superman).

To the guy who said Silver Surfer is more powerful than Odin…. WHAT?! You do realize Odin has swatted the Sufer like a fly in the past?

Some people aren’t worth talking to…

#28 Ernest Manigo, Jr. says:
November 21st, 2009 at 6:43 pm

Superman didn’t die and niether did Doomsday. They were perceived as dead and the writers creatively explained away their deaths. But they have healing factors (revealed). Also revealed was the fact that Doomsday is kryptonian, and, he was previous time period and culture that created him experimenting with cloning. This was the basis of the modern Kryptonian so Doomsday and Superman’s physiology is similar and that they both (revived) makes sense.

Silver Surfur does more that manipulate molecules, it’s just a great power in combination with the power cosmic. Silver Surfur can beat Thor beacause of the Power Cosmic he welds.

Hercules past comics stated that his strength increases… the example was if he was locked hand to hand with Thor, as Thor pushed, the force against him would make him push back stronger and harder… just as Hulk would as he gets angrier

Flash and Superman are only a millisecond apart in speed. The Speed Force should be applied, not because he’s fast but just that its a good idea.

Shazam is the wizard. I call captain Marvel Shazam. I will call him Captain Marvel now. Captain Marvel’s strenght is only Hercules.

This is the chart:
Captain Marvel Diety Attributes
Solomon Wisdom
Hercules Strength
Atlas Stamina
Zeus Power
Achilles Courage
Mercury Speed

He only gets power from Zues liken to Supermans heat vision, freeze breath etc. not strength

and Atlas stamina liken to superman’s invulnerbility… not strength

And, his Hercules strength isn’t genuine, its “2nd tier”.. so it can’t increase in times of adrenaline rushes or when he has to display “heart” like the real Hercules has many times. Wonderwoman has the streghth of Hercules also, but liken to Captian Marvel 2nd tier kind, not the real mccoy.

So again.. its

1. Silver Surfer
2. Superman
3. Thor/Hercules/Hyperion/Wonderman/etc.

#29 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 6:58 pm

Hercules is on the same level as Thor? Haha. Wow, you really don’t know much about comic books do you? And Thor has trashed Hyperion before as well. (As well as defeating the Silver Surfer a number of times. Once he beat the Surfer Adam Warlock and Beta Ray Bill at once. Another time he tied with Surfer AFTER Loki augmented the Surfer to the point where Surfer said that he was more powerful than he’d ever been. Surfer later admited Thor’s powers were greater than his own. All of this happened not in a Thor comic, but in a SILVER SURFER COMIC. The Surfer admited Thor was more powerful than himself. Oh, and you want to the the writer? Stan “The Man” Lee himself. So don’t blame it on poor writing either!!) Thor has also defeated the Silver Surfer’s master Galactus (the one who gave the Surfer his powers) using his “godblast”. Also the times where Thor has out-performed or simply beaten Wonder Man are too numerous to count (one off the top of my head was where Wonder Man got KO’ed by Gladiator and Thor came in and beat Gladiator himself.

So when you say “Silver Surfur does more that manipulate molecules, it’s just a great power in combination with the power cosmic. Silver Surfur can beat Thor beacause of the Power Cosmic he welds.” Sorry, the comics don’t agree with you there.

#30 Ernest Manigo, Jr. says:
November 21st, 2009 at 7:13 pm

I think you’re right. Read those comics.

so..

1. Superman
2. Thor
3. Silver Surfer

#31 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 7:25 pm

Well, that’s a much more reasonable listing, although I personally think Thor is more powerful than Superman (of course this is much debated, and there’s really no convincing everyone one way or another). From the comments I’ve read on this site, the majority of people, including the site’s authors, believe Thor to be more powerful than Superman. The main reasons being Thor’s magical abilities, and energy manipulation. Superman has been cut by magical weapons quite a few times in the past. Thor’s hammer, as we all know, is an UBER-powerful magical weapon. Also, Thor’s lighting is magical in nature. Combine this, with Thor’s energy manipulation abilities (he has literally drained the powers out of people much more powerful than Superman) and Thor wins IMHO. I don’t see any reason Thor can’t drain all the yellow sunlight out of Superman. Also, I doubt Superman is going to survive a godblast.

Let’s also consider WHERE the fight takes place. Superman can’t breath in space. How far away from a yellow sun are they? Are they fighting near a red sun? Superman has too many weaknesses, and Thor has none.

#32 Ernest Manigo, Jr. says:
November 21st, 2009 at 7:40 pm

Superman vs Thor will be where Superman is Superman.

Superman speed is invisible like Flash and he can be at two spots at once like Flash, so he’d avoid Thor.

Superman stregth level is 30,000 tons and Thors is 100+ Tons. he would knock Thor out cold.

And the Magic issue is overrated. He is vulnerable to magic, but he’s always wins. Magic is just a way to attack him, not defeat him. Magic is liken to a a little girl kicking Jet Li on the shin. it’ll hurt but he’d still give the little girl a stern talking to.

Most of the tiem when magic attacks Superman, if he’d just ignore the illusion, (which he winds up doing) he simply reaches out and stops the maddness.

Thor’s Hammer being magic just makes it magic and nice and hard and heavy. Superman can lift it. I think mainly cause he’s like Captain America, but also because he’s stronger.

Thor cannot drain supes unless he’s caught off guard. Superman’s Flash level speed would avoid everyything he dished out.

The GodBlast cannot desintegrate the Earth, so it cannot destroy Superman. Is it more powerful than Darkseids omega Blast?

Thor is cool. I like him. But Superman’s speed of being at three places at once, and heat vision, and freeze breath, and incredible earth lifting strength and his invulnerability would edge Thor.

#33 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 7:54 pm

“Superman speed is invisible like Flash and he can be at two spots at once like Flash, so he’d avoid Thor.”

Funny, how 99% of the time he isn’t able to avoid blows that hit him from enemies like Metallo (who has no super speed) or Adversary. I’ve seen BATMAN Judo toss Superman by surprise. If these people can hit Superman, so can Thor (who is able to swing his hammer twice the speed of light, if not faster). Something moving at twice the speed of light goes back in time…That’s how fast Thor can swing it. Also, Thor is able to SEE people going Super speed. Captain Marvel has hit Superman with lighting. Thor’s lighting is AT LEAST as fast as that (he one-shoted Gladiator with it while Gladiator was speed blitzing Thor).

“Superman stregth level is 30,000 tons and Thors is 100+ Tons. he would knock Thor out cold.”

I have no idea where you get your info dude. Is this from wikipedia? Thor can lift WAY more than than 100 tons. The guy has lifted the Midgard Serpant which is as big as the fucking planet earth. Matched strength with the Hulk (whose strength is potentially infinite). Superman is stronger, but not by THAT MUCH.

“And the Magic issue is overrated. He is vulnerable to magic, but he’s always wins. Magic is just a way to attack him, not defeat him. Magic is liken to a a little girl kicking Jet Li on the shin. it’ll hurt but he’d still give the little girl a stern talking to.”

Overrated??? Wonder Woman cut his throat with a magic item. Cut him open with a magic sword. WTF do you think the hammer will do?

“Most of the tiem when magic attacks Superman, if he’d just ignore the illusion, (which he winds up doing) he simply reaches out and stops the maddness.”

Thor’s MAGIC LIGHTNING is no illusion. It has KO’ed Gladiator in ONE SHOT. (a being who survived a SUPERNOVA). And Gladiator isn’t even vulnerable to magic.

“Thor’s Hammer being magic just makes it magic and nice and hard and heavy. Superman can lift it. I think mainly cause he’s like Captain America, but also because he’s stronger.”

He probably can lift it. But Thor starts with it.

“Thor cannot drain supes unless he’s caught off guard. Superman’s Flash level speed would avoid everyything he dished out.”

Says who? He’s drained Heralds who can move even faster than Superman.

“The GodBlast cannot desintegrate the Earth, so it cannot destroy Superman. Is it more powerful than Darkseids omega Blast?”

well, the Godblast defeated GALACTUS. Does anyone doubt it wouldn’t do so to Superman?

“Thor is cool. I like him. But Superman’s speed of being at three places at once, and heat vision, and freeze breath, and incredible earth lifting strength and his invulnerability would edge Thor.”

Explain to me how freeze breath hurts Thor… His hammer can easily block the heat vision (see fights with Gladiator and Silver Surfer). Only in speed and strength does Superman trump Thor. This is why Superman gets SOME wins…but not the majority. Those advantages are big, but as big as the 100s of other powers Thor has. Thor can teleport Superman into a black hole, a red sun, or to the remains of krypton (hello kryptonite). He can soul drain Superman. Godblast him. Hit him with magic lightning. Drain his energy. Teleport a mountain of kryptonite to the fight. Or use his remaining Odinforce on him…

#34 Ernest Manigo, Jr. says:
November 21st, 2009 at 8:02 pm

Oh, mean Superman can lift 6,585,000,000,000,000,000,000 tons (Earth’s weight) and puch with that force!

and, I know writers has to make things interesting… but if I was writing the story and maybe you were writing the Thor Part, I would create an accurate storyline based on Supes real potential! I’d have him vibrating through walls and through the ground, grabbing Thor and whisking him into space in 1/2 second, and powerdrive him back into mount everest 20 times in 3 seconds before he took a breath.. then, hold his weary body up and punch him out cold.

#35 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 8:10 pm

Unfortunately Superman has never done that to anyone in comics, not even Doomsday, who he was not holding back at against AT ALL. You also underrate Thor’s durability, big time. He has survived a blast that would destroy the entire world. He has taken blasts from Celestials and gotten up and knocked them on their ass (granted they got back up too). Thor could teleport Superman into the core of a black hole. He could drain an opponent faster than Superman could move (faster than the speed of thought according to Thor) so I doubt Superman could do that to Thor. I take nothing away from Superman. As you point out, its quite possible Superman wins. IMO its more likely Thor does though.

#36 Ernest Manigo, Jr. says:
November 21st, 2009 at 8:53 pm

wow. you don’t understand.

okay, check this… I’m here in NYC. I will sing Happy birthday. I say Ha… (Superman just went to your house, back here, back to your house, cleaned it, and back here and I didn’t see him leave) …ppy, birth day… Now the second stanza.. He just went out to space to the sun and back (it takes the light from the sun 8 minutes to reach the earth) and he just did that before you blinked.

Now… a guy that fast and strong enough to push the earth out of orbit against the gravitational pull of the sun (which is greater than the actual weight of Earth) could destroy Thor. Thor couldn’t even have time to think. of lift his hammer. Man, Superman could in less than a blink, snatch his hammer, tap it on the ground and change him back to Don Blake (if that’s still the storyline!) also, superman is Kryptonian… there were things Thor could not do to Thanos or the Kree because of their physiology.

Oh, and the reason Thpor beat Silver Surfer/Beta Ray/and Jack of whatever was the writer. Plus Silver Surfer held back. Thor may however still be able to beat Silver Surfer, but not easily.

But Superman with that speed and strenght… no way. Everyone always says the love Flash because they imagine someone like him zipping in and out and punching a million punches a second… imagine if the punches were more powerful than Hulks? no contest.

#37 Ernest Manigo, Jr. says:
November 21st, 2009 at 8:56 pm

oh… that’s not a great point…. Superman (bad superman) burned Doomsday’s brain in an alternate realty and defeated him in seconds. That supes was more ruthless…so just because he doesn’t do something before in comics doesn’t mean he can especially if he has the ability to… its up to a writer like ME!

#38 Ernest Manigo, Jr. says:
November 21st, 2009 at 8:58 pm

and… I forgot to mention, that was the cartoon (and I meant to say “can’t” in the previous sentence)

#39 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 9:06 pm

I can make the same argument about Thor. Just because you don’t see him do something doesn’t mean he couldn’t. Superman said when he was fighting Doomsday that he wasn’t holding back. Superman is not as strong as Hulk. Hulk’s strength is infinite. Thor and Hulk have gone toe to toe. So we’ve seen Thor take punches from stronger opponents than Superman. Thor has also moved planets. Hell Thor has FOUGHT a planet (Ego) and won. We’ve seen Thor fight SUPER FAST opponents and win. Hyperion, Hermes, Gladiator, the Silver Surfer, other heralds, etc. Thor CAN SEE Super fast individuals. He SAW Hermes (THE GOD OF SPEED) coming to attack him at Superman speed. Thor can react to such individuals. Thor can energy drain faster than the speed of thought. How can Superman speed Blitz Thor before thinking about doing so? He can’t. Superman CAN go that fast AFTER HE HAS THOUGHT TO DO SO. Thor can swing his hammer 2 times the speed of light (AT LEAST). Besides, how is Superman gonna avoid getting his soul drained? Thor has done this to people as powerful as Loki.

Also, what part about the Silver Surfer admitting (in a Silver Surfer comic, by Stan Lee) that he’s not as powerful as Thor do you not understand?

#40 Alberto says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:03 pm

@Pete

Clearly you just got into the debate and you have not seen Delta’s scans of Superman feats.

“Thor can teleport Superman into a black hole”
It would not work, Superman has escaped from a DOUBLE black hole.

“Thor can teleport Superman into a red sun”
It would not work, he has survived being inside a red sun , surrounded by most of the universes kryptonite. So that won’t work again.

Thor’s GodBlast has been survived by the Juggernaut in the past. Superman has a pretty good chance of surviving it too.

Thor can cut Superman with a magical weapon, unfortunatelly for Thor, Mjolnir is a blunt weapon, not a sharp weapon, with a really short handle that takes momentum out of the hammer.

Superman can and has defeted Thor, is more likelly that Superman will win 6, 7 or 8 out of 10 matches.
Not trashing Thor, because He deserves respect, but Superman is just way to powerful.

One more thing Hulk is not stronger than Superman.
In THEORY he is, but Hulk has shown his upper limits on how angry He can get, like WWH where He got his wife killed. To kill someones wife it will be the ultimate cause of anger for a man, and the only way I can picture the Hulk getting angrier (and I apologize beforehand) is if someone taped how They tortured, killed and feed her to the dogs Hulk’s 2 year old little girl, which I don’t think it will ever happen in Marvel comic books and God forbids it ever happen in any comic book.
Having said that (which I think it was too much) I don’t see the Hulk getting any angrier than WWH level. Therefore impossible for him to reach Superman strength.

#41 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:08 pm

Apparently, you don’t read comics, Alberto. Thor was heavily weakened when he used a godblast on Juggernaut. I want to see a scan of Superman inside a red sun surrounded by kryptonite if I am to believe that. And did you just use a crossover comic to prove your point? LOL. I guess there’s no point arguing with you.

#42 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:10 pm

Also, who said Superman “Can’t defeat Thor”? Did I? In fact I admitted he can defeat Thor. You obviously don’t read many comics, and just use examples from other forums, with no understanding of the scenerios.

#43 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:13 pm

Also, do you know how many people have bested Superman, or outright defeated him in comics? Superman fans are so close minded when it comes to Superman losing a fight. The average Superman fan thinks no one can ever beat Superman ever. Its just plain old fanboyism.

#44 Doug says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:23 pm

I am so sick of people going back to the JLA/Avengers crossover to deal with this battle. If you go by the current Thor (J. Michael Straczynski) tore open iron man like a can and iron man said you have never been this powerful and Thor replies I have never felt the need to use my full power. Not only that but since Odin is dead he has his fathers power ontop of his own. People always forget about Mjilnor too it is a magic hammer that controls magic lightning which superman’s current revision has ALWAYS been weak too. So yeah it would be a tough fight at first but Thor has fought many beings and has lived longer than kal so his experience and power would overtake kal.

#45 Randy says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:26 pm

There pretty much is NO ONE Superman can’t beat. Let’s see, Reed Richards can beat Galactus, but there are people Superman can’t beat? He CAN beat Galactus on the right occasion (starved.) He can beat any of the Celestials or the Living Tribunal. You can add the Fulcrum to the list as well since it is the entity to whom the Celestials answer.

#46 Pete says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:28 pm

Please, Alberto, explain to me how Thor cannot defeat Superman but Toyman and the Prankster are a big problem for him?

Superman when fighting a possessed Valor/Mon-el did state himself that Valor is stronger then him .

So you’re saying Superman has more than infinite strength( The Hulk has infinite strength) how does Superman have more than infinite strength, and yet someone is stronger than him?

Daximites have also been listed as stonger than Kryptonians

Superman has been knocked out by Captain Marvel before, which was a combination of his strengh and his affinity for magic.

Even Monarch decisively defeats Superman in Countdown. So those who say Superman can’t be beaten just can’t read.

Most Superman fanboys think he can defeat God if he wants to, and here i thought the Batman fans where obsessed.

#47 The Blue Lantern says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:34 pm

How about this? Thor and Hercules are equal when it comes to strength, right? They’ve armwrestled to a draw many times. Well, I guess that means Thor can do all these things:

The following recent feature tops the greatest SILVER AGE Superman feat, let alone anything the modern one has done…

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/03/29/01/01/3073444_991×601.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/03/29/01/02/3073448_990×599.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/03/29/01/02/3073456_833×465.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/03/29/01/02/3073459_451×1241.jpg

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/03/29/01/03/3073468_757×492.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/03/29/01/04/3073478_760×411.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/03/29/01/04/3073484_759×449.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/03/29/01/05/3073495_1005×504.jpg

#48 The Blue Lantern says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:36 pm

Oh, by the way, to those people who think Superman could beat the silver surfer, the Surfer can sense Superman’s weakness, and just turn his costume into kryptonite. Don’t believe me?

http://img503.imageshack.us/img503/998/galactusthedevourer518no4.jpg

#49 The Blue Lantern says:
November 21st, 2009 at 10:38 pm

Superman doesn’t look so unbeatable here:

http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/08/25/02/27/4844310_1092×657.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/08/25/02/28/4844312_1167×586.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/08/25/02/28/4844313_1207×578.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2009/08/25/02/28/4844315_1086×555.jpg