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Thor vs. Superman
The Mighty Thor and Superman are the heavy-hitters of Marvel and DC respectively, each of them arguably the most powerful hero in their respective universes. So its natural that this is without question the most discussed versus debate amongst comic book fans. No other versus battle comes close to being talked about as much than this one. Try to start a “Superman vs Thor” thread on any forum and the first response is sure to be: “Not this again”.Some of you may remember our “Top 10 Most Powerful Superheroes” list that we released a while back, where we made the controversial claim that Thor was the most powerful superhero of all time (Superman coming in at number three on that list). Months later we are still receiving emails either agreeing with us, or flaming us for that decision. Many fans cite Superman’s speed as the deciding factor in any fight between the two behemoths. Other emails claim that Thor’s magical powers would be enough to stop the man of steel in his tracks. So, the natural question is, do we still stand by our claim that Thor is more powerful than Superman? The answer is still “yes.” In this article we’ll break down the seven most common arguments and give you our take on them.
1. Super Strength
The claim has often been made that Superman is stronger than Thor. Many times on versus forums threads this claim is accepted as a given by both sides of the debate. We don’t concede that the Man of Steel is physically stronger than the god of thunder though. Thor has performed feats such as lifting the World Serpent, and once hurled the Odinsword, an enormous mystical blade, through a Celestial! Thor has also single-handedly matched the strength of the Hulk on numerous occasions (the Marvel Universe’s strongest character). Not only that but Thor is capable of entering into a state known as the “Warrior’s Madness”, which will temporarily increase his strength tenfold. Some of these feats have no true equivalent in the DC universe. We think at the very least, the two character’s physical strength is equal.
2 . Super Speed
This is Superman’s one true advantage in this fight. Superman is fast. We’re talking warp speed fast. We’re talking once around the entire planet and back before you can blink fast. You could easily make the argument that Thor would be lucky if he even saw Superman before he got pounded. But is Thor as slow as everyone seems to think? Unknown to many DC fanboys Thor can throw his hammer at the speed of light (See Thor#140, Thor#274). He can also swing it at TWICE the speed of light (Journey Into Mystery#102). In Thor -#393- it’s established that the speed of Thor’s hammer TRANSCENDS both TIME & SPACE. In addition Thor can appear anywhere across the Universe or other dimensions in just seconds (see- FF#339, and Thor#166). And, most importantly, Thor could, visually, detect objects that move at fantastic speeds (this happened when Thor was the target of artillery fire- see Invaders#33- and Avengers-#281- when he saw the speedy Hermes. And yes, I do need a life). Now if we accept that Superman can move at 99% of the speed of light, and that Thor can swing his hammer at twice the speed of light, it stands to reason that big blue is in some trouble. It’s true that Thor doesn’t use his super speed abilities often, but how many times have you seen Superman not use his super speed when he should have?
3. Stanima
Who can take more punishment, Thor or Superman? This is a difficult question. Thor has withstood a blast from Asgardian Destroyer. Superman has withstood a direct hit from a nuclear bomb. Thor has taken everything the Hulk could dish out. Thor also once took a glancing hit by a Doomsday Bomb that was capable of destroying an entire planet, and soon after that explosion he fell from space (leaving a crater miles wide) to a planet called Pangoria-see Thor#387. Thor has also taken everything that Gladiator (an arguably more powerful version of Superman) could dish out. Both characters have come back from the dead a couple of times. In my mind this one is a draw. Both characters have approximately the same stanima. The difference is Superman has weaknesses (i.e. Kryptonite, Magic, and the fact he is powerless without yellow sunlight) whereas Thor pretty much doesn’t.
4. Magic
Even the most diehard Superman fan would concede that Thor’s magical abilities would be an advantage for Thor. First, I would like to note that just because an opponent can wield magic, it in no way guarantees a win over the last son of Krypton. Superman has defeated countless magic users in the past, and so I have no illusions that just because Thor has magic powers and a magic hammer that he would automatically own Superman. That being said magic is just as lethal against Supes as kryptonite. Superman has no defense against it, and it can affect him greatly. Superman getting pounded by Mjolnir is the same as you and me getting pounded by a normal hammer. And consider the guy who’s swinging it. It’s Thor. The god of thunder. Not only that, but Thor’s lightning is magical too. Remember that just a single lightning bolt is equivalent to 15,000,000 volts of electricity and could travel over 224,000 miles an hour. The clear advantage here goes to Thor.
5. Super Powers
Before Thor inherited the Odinforce, the super powers of these two heroes were a little more even. Now there is absolutely no contest. Thor has a clear edge over Superman here. His magical hammer gives Thor the ability to control the weather, the ability to fly; energy projection and absorption; dimensional apertures; matter manipulation, as well as the most powerful of his offensive powers: the God Blast, and the Anti-Force. Superman is no push over in this department either, with the already mentioned super strength, super speed, as well as heat vision, x-ray vision, enhanced senses, and the ability to blow hurricane force winds from his mouth. But what is that compared to being able to summon an actual hurricane? Not only that but with the Odinforce Thor was then capable of feats such as reconstructing the Earth’s Moon, willing the Asgardian monster Mangog into nothingness, and by focusing his entire power into a hammer throw that even decapitated a Desak-occupied Asgardian Destroyer. Having accepted his heritage as the son of the earth goddess Gaea, he has recently been shown to be capable of opening chasms in the earth itself, and who knows what other abilities he’ll be displaying now that he’s done that.
6. Superman beat Thor in the Avengers / DC Crossover
I don’t want to spend much time on this one. Most fans of comics know how much weight we should give to crossovers. Besides, I personally have no doubt that Superman would beat Galactus in a crossover. He’s DC’s flagship character after all. Enough said on that one.
7. Thor has Thousands of Years of Combat Experience
This is a common argument used by Thor fans to claim that Thor would take down Superman. It seems fairly obvious. If I somehow gained super powers and a Viking Warrior somehow gained the exact same or nearly equivalent powers, most people would put their money on the Viking if we fought each other. Now imagine the Viking warrior was thousands of years older than me, and had been using his powers for all those thousands of years to battle trolls, giants, demons, robots, aliens, and gods, and I have only been using my powers for 20-30 years. It seems clear to me that the Viking Warrior god has a clear cut advantage over me in a fight. Again advantage Thor.
It seems obvious to me that Thor has a clear advantage over Superman in a fight. I don’t think that Thor is so powerful that there is no way that Superman could ever defeat him. But I believe that the majority of the time Thor would beat Superman in a one on one fight, assuming its not a fight to the death. If it is a fight to the death, then I think Thor would almost invariably win. So there you have it, the definitive answer to one of the most talked about and controversial debates in comic book nerdom. Brought to you by your pals at Old-Wizard.com.
Discuss Thor vs Superman in our forums.
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November 20th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
Alberto, THE SILVER SURFER REACTED IN LESS THAN A NANOSECOND. How is that a speed blitz??? Learn English, sneak into the US illegally, steal some comics, and then come online and talk to us.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:29 pm
Alberto, just leave. At least Delta ALMOST knows what’s he talking about.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
Alberto:
Do you think the Surfer has no FTL combat speed? Si or no?
November 20th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
Yes, the Surfer has NO COMBAT speed, right?
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9101/silversurferv1004p031pn4.jpg
What does it take to convince these twits?
November 20th, 2009 at 8:37 pm
Surfer travels to nearly every capital city on Earth and attacks it in a matter of seconds:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1483/silversurfer0105mo5.jpg
HOW IS THAT NOT COMBAT SPEED??????
November 20th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
OK I’m back so time to see what the idiots have written. Give me a few minutes to see what you’ve done.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:55 pm
Good Lord Duke and Rick, you two are fucking idiots.
Rick, you just re-posted scans that don’t show a fucking thing. He out-performs Quasar? Big deal. Predicted a teleporter? So? Flying around dodging stuff? Green Lanterns and plenty of others do that too. Nano-second reaction time? At best it proves reaction time, not combat speed. You and Duke don’t even know what combat speed is, do you guys? I mean you actually tried arguing that Silver Surfer punching Nova ONCE before he could react is combat speed?
If the Thing/Surfer fight was retconned, you got me there once. You never acknowledge all the times you’ve been wrong though. K, so Thing’s fight against Surfer was retconned? I’ll be OVERLY generous and give an idiot like you the benefit of the doubt, but really shouldn’t considering the examples you actually think are combat super-speed. The fact of the matter is, Surfer’s been knocked-out by those with less strength than Superman before.
On the fun fact, you’re pretty much falling into your own trap. Did you just ignore the fact that Orion did far better against Darkseid than Silver Surfer did in the same comic you’re touting?
You’ve still failed to prove Surfer has combat speed. And I laugh that the two of you keep cheerleading each other and ignore all the times you’ve been countered. I mean, Duke actually tries to claim that Surfer will out-speed Superman by saying going a few hundred times the speed of light. Superman needs to go a whole lot faster than that to travel lightyears in seconds, for ONE example.
And Duke, you’re actually arguing that Thanos can react to faster than light? What? Because he’s fought Heralds? Big deal. You can make an argument for when he had the Infinity Gauntlet, but even that doesn’t really show anything since he was fighting Captain America, and often showing inferior speed, when Surfer failed to grab the Gauntlet. Not to mention you exaggerate how far away Surfer was, act like you’re splitting hairs of it being seconds or fractions of a second when there’s a HUGE difference at these distances, oh and didn’t even PROVE anything since Surfer didn’t even get the Infinity Gauntlet.
And how hilarious that you accuse Alberto of needing to learn English. “Nano-second reaction time” isn’t a fucking speed-blitz. I ask again, do you even know what the FUCK it is?
And your examples again fail to show anything. Surfer dodging ONE SWORD thrown at him proves he’s got combat super speed? Traveling around the world really fast, dodging some relatively slow stuff, and most of it being off-panel is PROOF that Surfer has combat speed? Yeah, you failed again.
My God, you don’t even know what you’re talking about!! You can’t even get the base of your argument correct.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:01 pm
Yeah, Thing vs Surfer was retconned. Surfer was now just dazed, not knocked out.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:03 pm
Dan…..
Your argument rests on ignorance and overrating Surfer’s “Cosmic Awareness.” Especially since you state that going by how they normally fight. Surfer doesn’t normally fight doing shit like that.
And you’re completely wrong that Kryptonite has always been a near-death experience for Superman. Him having been worn-down from days of fighting/torture against Bizarro and Mongul, put on his hands and knees in Kryptonite then shrugging off a nuke isn’t even impressive. Superman’s been fine from a Kryptonite attack that killed another Kryptonian, showed superiority to numerous opponents who were supposed to be on par or equal to him while under Kryptonite’s influence, and shrugged-off a punch from Superboy Prime, after having massively exerted himself under a red sun and surrounded by literally a planet’s worth of Kryptonite. Superboy Prime punches through dimensions and changes the past as a side-effect.
And again, like I said earlier, your argument makes it even worse since you’re claiming Surfer acts in ways he rarely does.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:05 pm
lol So Surfer was only dazed by someone Superman’s far, far stronger than instead of knocked-out? I was under the impression the fight never happened. Thanks Steve for proving my instincts wrong on giving Rick the benefit of the doubt.
November 20th, 2009 at 11:06 pm
Yeah, still pretty stupid. I don’t put much stock in that one. I’ve also heard (I could be wrong here) that Surfer’s powers are weakened while he’s in the atmosphere of a planet rather than in space. Anyone know if that’s true?
November 20th, 2009 at 11:10 pm
Steve, I think I heard something similar done by Galactus as punishment. If that is the case, would make sense.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:42 am
@Rick
Wiki facts, What the F??? are you going to tell me, that when it comes to Marvel comics, WIKI is more reliable than the Marvel Handbook? Funny
November 20th, 2009 at 12:42 am
@President Steve
The events of the previous crossovers were retcon later, So they seem to be no longer canon, That is why ACCESS was created, ACCESS is own by both companies, but it was not used in the Avengers/JLA crossosver.
So the stories involving Access were RETCON by both companies, They were canon, but not anymore, plus Delta already explained why Venom was able to deal with Superman.
The stories of VS were Fan voted, That is why Storm defeated WW, and Wolverine defeated Lobo. Now the Wolverine fight was so ridiculous that they were not even able to explain in a simple drawing How Wolverine could Defeat Lobo and they have to do it off panel.
Latter on the Access series Wonder Woman defeated Juggernaut
The stories from the Crossover classics took place in a made up world in which Marvel and DC have always been together.
Don’t blame me for not taking into account the Access Crossovers, it was the companies, the ones who decided to Retcon the stories, not me.
It is not as if I’m following the line of reasoning than only crossovers where Superman wins are canon and crossovers where Superman lost are not. It is what the companies decided to do.
The same way all of you accept that New earth Superman is not Pre-Crisis Superman. It was made like that by the companies not me, and I really hope, ALL of you understand that.
Also, you already accepted the evidence as compelling
November 20th, 2009 at 12:43 am
@Duke
Look while I have give you plenty of examples of why this PARTICULAR crossover is considered canon by many, YOU have only showed a WIKI reference and basically try to diminish my points because of my “poor” English
Delta’s example:
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/2968/allnewohotmuaz03064og.jpg
My examples
1.http://www.avengerschronology.com/main_chronology_quick.asp?p=3
2.-http://c4.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/60/l_5c2e59fd07c14673865741291beb7463.gif
3.-http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/70/l_38f4fef89c594f5f8bd681e86f2e33e1.gif
4.-The JLA and Avengers Plan One Huge Summer Summit
It’s not a dream, an IMAGINARY TALE, or even an outright lie — nope: For the first time ever the JLA and the Avengers are CROSSING OVER.
5.-http://marvel.wikia.com/DC_Universe Yes I know, is wikia, but strange How NOBODY has CHANGED THEM
6.-http://marvel.wikia.com/Avengers_%28Earth-616%29 Notice how this page DOES NOT make any reference to what if stories or dreams, just continuity events
7.-http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/New_Earth_(Post-Crisis)
8.-http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Marvel_Universe
9.-Marvel has pulled back from that, somewhat, specifically to avoid giving the impression that their uber-crossover is based on something that happened in a comic published with DC (on top of giving the appearance that the only reason they are having an uber-crossover is that DC has been having success with theirs)
References of Access events being canon and then Retcon
1.-http://marvel.wikia.com/Access
2.-http://marvel.wikia.com/Marvel_Versus_DC
3.-http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Access
Dukes examples
1.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercompany_crossover
2.-ttp//www.experiencefestival.com/jlaavengers (Worth mentioning, the second example is powered by WIKI, NOT MARVEL WIKIA, BUT WIKI. and is pretty much a copy and paste of the 1st one
3.- “You inbred foreigner, with broken English”
12 of mine + 1 of Delta = 13 examples VS 1 example of Duke
Wow, Duke are you really that STUPID?
Like I told you before, just accept and concede that the evidence is compelling
Speaking of examples and references, Delta has given numerous examples and references of why Superman should win, The other side has only given a FEW examples and rely (like Delta said) on wishful thinking to prove Thor’s win.
If we count the amount of examples on both sides, the fanboyism will be truly visible on the Thor’s side with less examples and wishful thinking being their best argument
November 20th, 2009 at 12:44 am
@SonOfOdin
I want to respect your point of view, but while sometimes you show a flare of intelligence, most of the time you are just a brute.
Your reasoning of “THOR SHOULD WIN, BECAUSE HE IS A GOD” has no validity and is utterly stupid in a Comic Fantasy World, In which anything can happen.
Seriously I believe your mentality is comparable to a VIKING living in the middle ages, where only a Genius can become Doctor, and Gods cannot be defeated. Well compared to your intelligence level, ANY person with a GED is a genius on your eyes.
Your name is the one of the most biased names on the web site, and only could be surpassed, by “Delta-hater” or “Thor’s bitch”
Your wishful thinking is really cute at times. like a 5 year old wishing to meet ET.
The way I see it, The fight of Thor VS Superman it will be the equivalent of Rocky fighting Mr.T on the second battle, while Thor packs a punch Superman’s speed, durability and equality of punch. Will give the fight to Superman.
November 20th, 2009 at 12:44 am
@Everybody
Like I said, I do not need to convince anyone of the canonical value of the comic, The people that matters, already have acknowledge the evidence at lest as compelling and a lot have accepted it as canon.
Zero is not already said, He is not going to take it account, because Superman being a Flagship character.
Worth to mention Superman was getting owned by Venom and it did not matter his flagship status, on the Access crossovers.
Thor was defeated by a NON- flagship character in the JLA/ AVENGERS crossover and also was defeated by Superman.
ONE of the reasons of why this comic was made, IT WAS TO PUT AN END, ONCE AND FOR ALL, WHO WILL WIN.
Both companies HAVE to approve the writer and the artist
Kurt Busiek was no chump, when He wrote the story, He had at least a 4 YEAR run on the Avengers and knew Thor very well, He had more chances of mistreating Superman at the time. For those who might say that Busiek mistreated Thor, He also mistreated Superman and the first thing He did as soon as He took over JLA was to get Superman defeated by Ultraman in “our” universe, so that argument is not valid.
For those claiming that Busiek is another Greg Pak, Just let me tell you this, Pak did not do anything NEW with the Hulk, He just Hyped the Book, all of the Hulk feats during the WWH Were done before, and the only actual big feat of the Pak era , was Hulk stalemating the Sentry and nothing else. So claiming that Busiek is another Pak, HYPING THE BOOK, Is also not going to work,
Now back to the book, IT WAS TO PUT AN END, ONCE AND FOR ALL, WHO WILL WIN.
IT WAS NOT FAN VOTED
IT WAS WRITTEN BY A PERSON WITH A LOT OF EXPERIENCE IN BOTH UNIVERSES
AND MOST IMPORTANT, THE WRITER AND THE STORY WAS APPROVED BY BOTH COMPANIES.
Remember the original JLA/AVENGERS did not happen, because of this problem. They never agree on it.
So MARVEL AGREE ON THOR GETTING DEFEATED BY SUPERMAN and DC agree on stating that the next fight could be on Thor’s favor
MARVEL AND DC ALSO AGREED ON CAPTAIN AMERICA, BEING CAPABLE OF DEFEATING BATMAN.
They also agreed on the basic differences between the Universes and How DC heroes are generally stronger, but also point at that because of Marvel Heroes are generally less powerful have to fight harder and thus it making their actions more admirable.
Marvel also agreed on Firestorm and Red Tornado, defeating Thor and Vision
Now, Thank GOD. Superman did not lost the fight, Because if that have been the case, I would not have any justifications like Superman getting defeated by a flag ship character, because Thor is not a flagship character and I will be clinging for dear life, that this comic is not canon.
Now, let me see if I understand Duke’s logic here I have 13 references of this comic being canon in which Kurt Busiek thinks Superman can defeat Thor, plus The comic is approved by both companies, in this case harder to approve because is 2 companies not one, VS 1 Measly reference from WIKI showed by a guy who has NO weight or authority whatsoever in the Comic Book World
WHICH ONE WILL BE THE RIGHT ONE?
The answer is obvious to me and to anyone with half a brain and is not a fanboy
PS.
Speed-blitzing is not the same as speed, Silver Surfer’s are feats of speed not speed blitzing, I have never seen the Surfer punching an opponent form every angle and everywhere at the same time like Flash or Superman.
Peace
November 20th, 2009 at 12:54 am
@Duke
I guess you have been made look like an idiot, by a “beaner”.
13 examples vs 1
WOW!!!
You are a joke, and any person with a lille bit of comon sense can see it.
Plus Busiek expertise on the matter is more than enough, to prove, that you are wrong. And that in fact Superman can defeat Thor. at least on the eyes of people that ACTUALLY matter, NOT YOU.
Next time, I’ll use more lubricant, so your ass is not sore when I’m done with you.
Peace
November 20th, 2009 at 1:08 am
I know the DC VERSUS MARVEL and sequel crossovers were canon during their time, but I heard they were retconned due to JLA/AVENGERS. Something about Kurt Busiek saying that they weren’t familiar with each other was one showing of the previous encounters not being canon.
Also, Steve, for you to say if you consider one crossover means all should be canon is a very, very bad argument. For one, most crossovers don’t have references to make them canon. Some are up in the air, and others are out-right stated to be out of continuity. I mean, how can you argue that the Batman/Captain America crossover from the 90’s is canon if JLA/AVENGERS is canon, when it had Batman and Robin as operating during WWII? It was out-right stated to be an ELSEWORLDS.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
You are right Delta
Tha Access crossover were retcon and Busiek did not want to use the character.
I think he did a great job, explaining the differences between the two universes
November 20th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
Personally, I think Superman is more powerful than Thor. But the Silver Surfer is much more powerful than either of them. Superman vs Thor all comes down to speed and strength. Superman is at least 10 times stronger than Thor. And so much faster that its ridiculous. I think durability-wise it is fairly even.
Also, in regards to the Silver Surfer not having combat speed, all I can say is “WHAT THE FUCK?” If someone can react in less than a nano-second to something, that’s FTL reaction time. Now, combine that with the fact that we know he can search the entire surface of the Earth for someone in less than a second, (that is not a straght line speed feat) and we have a good idea that Surfer has FTL combat speed. Now, add in to that fact that he ATTACKED every capital city of Earth in less than a second, and the case is air tight. What more evidence do you need that the Surfer has super combat speed? Are you claiming his combat speed is the same as someone like Captain America? It seemed like that guy Alberto claimed Captain America has GREATER combat speed than the Surfer. Are you really that delusional?
It will always amaze me how some people can see all the evidence for something right in front of their eyes, and still can’t believe it. What do you need to see on panel to accept that the Surfer can move FTL in combat? I’ve seen more convincing evidence for Surfer having combat speed than Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter or even Captain Marvel.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:54 pm
Delta, I think you misunderstood me. That’s not what I believe at all. I was pointing out that that was the logical conclusion to Alberto’s argument. He is arguing that since Wanda knows about Chaos magic, that the Avengers/JLA crossover is canon. Well, it seems one could make that same argument for any Marvel/DC crossover. In other words, assuming she is talking about chaos magic from DC, it just proves that she knows of the existence of the DC universe. Not one particular crossover.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:27 pm
@Mike
No, I was just showing the scan of Cap dodging Thanos attacks and Surfer failing to retrieve the gauntlet from someone who cannot even punch Cap.
Spiderman also has been able to dodge Silver Surfer PUNCHES in the past.
I think Surfer has a great deal of speed, meaning as in acceleration and velocity, He is also shows a great deal of maneuverability, but I have NEVER seen the guy hyper speed punching or attacking someone. Like the Flash or Superman often do.
Now, Cap dodging Thanos attacks, while Thanos is using the Power Gem, it means Thanos reflexes were duplicated by the gem and still, He was not able to land a single punch on Cap and yet his reflexes were fast enough to avoid the Surfers attempt to snatch the gauntlet form Thanos.
How do you and I explain that. I have no fucking idea.
While in theory, Surfer should be able to react at light speed meaning light speed reflexes, He often fails to show this ability and like Delta and Zero said, He is very inconsistent.
November 20th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
Alberto, how do you explain the scans of Surfer ATTACKING every capital city of earth in less than a second? How is that not a speed attack?
November 20th, 2009 at 5:58 pm
Lets see
If I agree and accept Supermans inhability to handle Venom at the time of the access crossovers.
Will anyone agree that Superman defeated Thor fair and square in the ONLY POSSIBLE way they can fight?
Plus Me accepting the defeat of Superman at Venom’s hands, also implies, that, the STATUS OF FLAGSHIP CHARACTER, does not matter in this crossovers.
Threfore it means Superman won the fight against Thor.
Plus the fact that Thor and Vision were defeated by non flagship characters Firestorm and Red Tornado, it means that the status of flagship character wining, was not applied in this particular crossover. and that the results as everybody knows of Venom vs Superman and Superman vs Thor were not FAN VOTED.
Anyway I see it, Superman wins in the end
November 20th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
What does that have to do with anything? I was talking about the Silver Surfer. And didn’t I already say Superman would beat Thor? You need to try out some medication, dude.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:05 pm
@Mike
I think you missundertand what Delta is trying to show you, and maybe, I need to show you some scans, so you can understand what he is talking about, when he reffers to combat speed, not just speed
November 20th, 2009 at 6:07 pm
@Mike
Remember, posts take some time to appear and while you are writting an answer to somebody 2 or 3 post can appear before yours
November 20th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Explain to me how ATTACKING every city on earth in less than a second isn’t combat speed. I just one that one issue explained.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:08 pm
Notice the word “attacking” in there.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:10 pm
I don’t need anyone to explain combat speed to me. Can you show me a scan of Captain Marvel using combat speed?
November 20th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Believe me I think Captain Marvel has combat speed, to claim the surfer doesn’t is preposterous.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:14 pm
@Mike
Wow!wow!wow!
Slowdown Dude, I have things to do right now, I’ll check back later and try to show you some scans
November 20th, 2009 at 8:49 pm
I would imagine Thor beating Superman only about 55% of the time, and everyone of their bouts being tremendously close. I’m more of a Thor fan, however I don’t have a hard time believing Busiek’s version of a Superman/Thor battle. In the end, its the writer’s job to sell a fight; the dynamic of the Superman/Thor fight was pretty much blow for blow until Busiek had Thor try to walk through Superman’s heat vision (some could argue that Busiek was down playing Thor’s battle intelligence here– I agree, but whatever). Having incurred significant damage from Superman’s heat vision, Superman puts him down via brutal hay maker punch.
I think that it would have been completely believable if Thor had struck Superman with a slew of lightning bolts (of course, we all know that Thor’s lightning is magical in essence) and put Supes down in a similar fashion. In fact, I thought it was a little weird that Busiek didn’t utilize this, Thor’s most effective ranged attack.
Some people would probably argue that Superman is too fast to get hit with a Thor lightning bolt but I seriously doubt that fans would be screaming “NO! Nuh-uh, Superman would never be hit by something as slow as a lightning bolt!!!” I could have totally seen Superman falling to continuous lightning strikes and then Thor putting him down for good. Just my opinion.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
In fact, as it applies to Busiek’s Superman/Thor bout, I would think that lightning bolts from Thor would be more damaging to Superman than Superman’s heat vision was on Thor. Furthermore, I don’t think that there is better suited offensive projectile in comics (that a flagship character often utilizes) than Thor’s lightning to hurt Superman.
Yes Superman has probably had millions of volts of electricity pour through his body (Delta can probably get some scans of that) and has withstood extremely high temperatures (look no further than him flying Prime through the red kyrptonian sun) but we have to remember that not only is lightning both hot and charged, but Thor’s lightning is magic.
I don’t think Storm summoning lightning would be anywhere near as damaging to Superman (if she could hit him) than if it were projected from Thor.
November 20th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I believe, Busiek’s interpretation of the fight was pretty well done, While there could be a thousand ways to do the fight, He only had one shot at it. So He really have to give his best interpretation of the fight.
I think that Thor will try to walk through Superman’s heat vision, because that is the kind of fighting style he usually shows.
Thor is the kind of guy, who fights head on, and rarely displays a different approach to an enemy.
While Superman is not invulnerable to magical thunder, there is nothing to prove that magical thunder moves faster than light. Superman sees natures thunder in slow motion while he is moving at super-speed.
If somehow Thor is able to connect continuous lightning strikes against Superman, then I can see Thor defeating Superman.
Superman’s biggest problem against Thor is magic.
The biggest problem for Thor is Superman’s speed, even if Thor is able to throw Mjolnir at him, Superman can out run it.
Is there anyone who disagrees that Superman can outrun Mjolnir?
November 20th, 2009 at 4:51 pm
@Mike
The only thing I found of Captain Marvel blitzing
http://img133.imagevenue.com/img.php?loc=loc24&image=ed1f7_capbolt_obsidian.jpg#
November 20th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
@Mike
But Delta means something like this:
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9451/588184fncrcv7largetm4.jpg
November 20th, 2009 at 5:03 pm
@Mike
or this:
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/91/l_52115a322d044f75b865b71957a50356.jpg
November 20th, 2009 at 5:11 pm
@Mike
or this one too:
http://c3.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/26/l_9096a3cbb1524dfc890f296c06564352.gif
November 20th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
So those examples will be combat speed.
The other one will be Speed attack?
I seriously don’t know, but I can see a difference between the two of them.
While similar, they are not the same.
November 20th, 2009 at 6:25 pm
Alberto, read this comment really slowly, so that you can understand it.
How is the Silver Surfer attacking every capital city on the earth in less than a second not a feat of combat speed? If he can do that to the entire earth, he can attack superman multiple times in less than a second as well?
Yes or no?
November 20th, 2009 at 7:16 pm
I guess if We go for black and white definitions it is, but clearly this is not the same as punching your opponent 2,000 times in a second.
While I have seen Superman and Flash doing similar things like the Surfer, I have never seen the Surfer moving his articulations as fast as Superman or the Flash.
On the contrary, I have seen that his articulations are rather slow compared to the speed He gets on his board.
That is the difference
November 20th, 2009 at 7:37 pm
Clearly, if someone can attack every capital city on the entire planet earth in less than a second, has nano-second reaction times, can fly across GALAXIES in less than a second, and can search the entire earth in less than a second, I’m sure he can punch someone 2,000 times in a second. He can also see subatomic particles moving at FTL millions of light years away. Is it such a stretch for you to admit he has super fast combat speed?
Its quite obvious he can attack Superman as fast as Superman can attack him. Its also quite obvious that given the fact that he has nano-second reaction times, and can see subatomic particles moving at FTL speeds that are light years away, its fair to say that he can easily keep track of, and match any speed Superman has been shown to attack at.
November 20th, 2009 at 8:21 pm
No. It is not clear.
While on theory he should be able, he has never shown those abilities in the books, on the contrary, more often than not He seems, quite slow compared to street level characters.
Why? I have no Idea.
This is why Surfer is so inconsistent.
He sould have light speed reflexes, but he does not. The only example that is actually pretty god is the nano second reaction scan, but how do you explain the fact that He was not able to snach The gauntlet from Thannos or land a SINGLE punch on Spiderman, WHEN “CLEARLY” he should?
November 20th, 2009 at 8:30 pm
I have to agree on something.
On theory, Silver Surfer should be more Powerful than Superman or Thor.
But that is only on theory, on practice is a different story.
November 20th, 2009 at 9:45 pm
Wow, things were surprisingly slow here while I was gone. I’ll have to respond to more posts later, but I thought I’d respond to Steve.
Point taken on the crossover thing, Steve. I was mostly skimming through Alberto’s posts since he wasn’t the one I was arguing with.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:17 pm
@Delta
Thigs are slow here, because Duke is still sore and he hasn’t show up since
I agree that Wanda could be refering to any other crossover, but MOST of the evidence points at JLA/AVENGERS.
I’m still looking for more conclusive evidence.
But I may or might not find it
November 20th, 2009 at 10:25 pm
@Mike
This is what happen when you actually don’t pay attention to the story (I’m talking about me)
Look the panel says:
“within seconds, almost every capital city on earth is visited by the silvery, streaking surfboard and its sky-born master”
Now, it does not say that “the Surfer attacked every capital city on earth in a second”
This is different of what you stated, he was not attacking, he is just steaking arround the globe.
THIS IS NOT COMBAT SPEED, IS ONLY SPEED.
November 20th, 2009 at 10:30 pm
And of course the scan came from RETARD DUKE
Duke’s post:
“Surfer travels to nearly every capital city on Earth and attacks it in a matter of seconds:
http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/1483/silversurfer0105mo5.jpg
HOW IS THAT NOT COMBAT SPEED??????”
DUKE you are a RETARD and you accuse me of bad english
Duke you are really a STUPID.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA, YOU ARE PATHETIC